Christian Fundamentalists

[Halima]

Asslaam Walikum,


Unfortunately, some people label muslims as "extremists" or "fundamentalists", as opposed to moderate muslims. To me, that is such a silly thing, because without enforcing our great holy laws of islam, without enforcing the doctrine of islam there would be no great muslim ummah afterall. Now, if you think about it in reverse, the same question implies to the so-called indoctrination, Which concludes my question, are there some christians that act that way about their religion?

[mule]

I have been labled as a fundie.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Fundamentalist means that you follow the fundamentals of your religion. One of the fundamentals of Islam is moderation. So a fundamentalist is a moderate muslim.

Extremism is against the fundamntals of Islam so an extremist is not a true muslim.

[Halima]

I have been labled as a fundie.


Well why were the reasons you labeled as a fundie? Did you take christianity to such extreme measures? Therefore people had started to label you as a fundie?

[mule]

Halima,


Well why were the reasons you labeled as a fundie? Did you take christianity to such extreme measures? Therefore people had started to label you as a fundie?

I take a very literal approach to the bible and I am a creationist. I am also a bit outspoken and known to be very stubborn about my faith. I believe certain things about abortion and woman's rights that doesn't gel with people. I believe certian things that people just find odd. I was labeled because of what I believe rather then what I did. I really should take Chrsitianity to more extreme measures.

mule

[hawk]

Halima,



I take a very literal approach to the bible and I am a creationist. I am also a bit outspoken and known to be very stubborn about my faith. I believe certain things about abortion and woman's rights that doesn't gel with people. I believe certian things that people just find odd. I was labeled because of what I believe rather then what I did. I really should take Chrsitianity to more extreme measures.

mule

Mule;
I stand with you on abortion, on womens rights;
I stand with you sister in Christ.
:)

[Lamp Of Light]

The very same thing has happened to me Mule. It is almost wihtout fail somone who has no faith in God, or as I would say, somone who prefers the darkness to the light (which is alot of people). I myself am shamed at my own nakedness before God...I hardly doubt there is a person who isn't, or hasn't been.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Is there something wrong with following the fundamentals of your religion?( being a fundamentalist).

Well it depends on what the fundamentals are. As long as Christians don't take the Bible literally as a fundamental, then I think the fundamentals of Christianity are good.

[hawk]

Is there something wrong with following the fundamentals of your religion?( being a fundamentalist).

Well it depends on what the fundamentals are. As long as Christians don't take the Bible literally as a fundamental, then I think the fundamentals of Christianity are good.

Semantics...Semantics

An Islamic Fundamentalist (by media definitions), beheads kneeling "kuffaaar" in front of him, whilst reciting the Koran

Im not sure if you can see something wrong with that picture.

A Christian Fundamentalist, (by media definitions), is the "Kaafir" kneeling in front of the Muslim reciting the Koran.
Cos only he was brave (read dumb) enough to try proselytising in Iraq.

Im still not sure if you can see something wrong with that picture.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

By media definition, huh.

By media definitions, Hitler is a Christian Fundamentalist. look at his speech:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." [1]


[1] = Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


So, by the same definitions, Hitler is going to Christian heaven.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

... beheads kneeling "kuffaaar" in front of him, whilst reciting the Koran
Are you intentionally making it plural?
Anyway, that is not a muslim fundamentalist, because killing innocents is against the fundamentals of Islam.


Im not sure if you can see something wrong with that picture.
The picture does not exist.

Peace

[hawk]

By media definition, huh.

By media definitions, Hitler is a Christian Fundamentalist. look at his speech:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." [1]


[1] = Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


So, by the same definitions, Hitler is going to Christian heaven.

And your point is?

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Whats yours?

[hawk]

Are you intentionally making it plural?
Anyway, that is not a muslim fundamentalist, because killing innocents is against the fundamentals of Islam.


The picture does not exist.

Peace

It was a joke my dear Ansar, please dont take it seriously,
Ofcourse I dont mean that those twits are Muslims.

They are more "kuffar" than I am...If i may allow myself that liberty.

I think of this forum as a "cyber khilafa"

Where people like Hash , call me "kufr" in their posts, whilst frothing (i imagine) at the mouth, because of my insolence of saying that the Khilafa needs to be thought of deeply.

But please dont say anyhting to him. I have no intention of causing trouble.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Sorry that you were treated that way. It is very shameful.

Hash is a new member who doesn't know much about manners it seems.

You are a respected member on this forum, and a respected friend of Islam.

I am proud to dialogue with a friend like you. :)

[Ansar Al-Haq]

saying that the Khilafa needs to be thought of deeply..
i agree.

[nr_]

I've been watching a lot of TV and our use of fundamentalist Christian is signficantly different than our use of Islamic fundamentalist. First, though, let's see how this all started. Christian fundamentalism was created to back what the creator believed to be essential Christian doctrines--that is, the virgin birth, the Bible, etc-- without going into some of the more complicated aspects of modern Christianity. (http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/fund.html) But the usage of fundamentalism in Islam is different. When a western media reporter says that some muslim is a fundamentalist, she means they believe in Jihad against the west. She not only means a muslim who accepts the Qur'an, all of the Qur'an, but someone who has a terrorist mindset. Of course, not everyone who has a terrorist mindsight becomes a terrorist. No, but they do support terrorist or idealize them.

[Nabil]

Asslaam Walikum,


Unfortunately, some people label muslims as "extremists" or "fundamentalists", as opposed to moderate muslims. To me, that is such a silly thing, because without enforcing our great holy laws of islam, without enforcing the doctrine of islam there would be no great muslim ummah afterall. Now, if you think about it in reverse, the same question implies to the so-called indoctrination, Which concludes my question, are there some christians that act that way about their religion?

As-salamu'alaykom Halima,

Im not sure that the laws of Islam can be enforced. (2:256 "let there be no compulsion in religion.....

It would seem to me that obeaying the laws of la ilaaha illa-llah is an act of worship that comes from the heart. I mean why do I obey the laws of Allah(swt)? Love for Allah(subhana wa tallah). Why do I obey the laws of the kafur concerning things that Allah(swt) has made lawfull? Because I dont want to go to jail.
Can you imagine the chaos and turmoil that would ensue if we were to try to enforce the laws of la ilaah illa-llah on the people of a country like the US?
If this were possable the US would be in the same condition as Iraq is today for the same reasons.

I stand in agreement with the Christian fundimentilists on issues such as "gay" marrage and abortion as most Muslims do. Where I part company with them is when they claim that their man made laws can be enforced on Muslims by means of violance.

wassalam,

Nabil...........

[Al-Falah]

nr,
Terrorism is against tthe fundamentals of Islam, therefore, anyone who calls a terrorist a muslim fundamentalist is lying.

[Halima]

I stand in agreement with the Christian fundimentilists on issues such as "gay" marrage and abortion as most Muslims do. Where I part company with them is when they claim that their man made laws can be enforced on Muslims by means of violance.

I definetly agree with you regarding abortion, and "gay marriage"

[Halima]

nr,
Terrorism is against tthe fundamentals of Islam, therefore, anyone who calls a terrorist a muslim fundamentalist is lying.


Terrorism is not even within the boundaries of islam. Terrorism is something that even the christians consider a crime. Terrorism is by far the worst violence commited by man. I agree with you, unfortunately, people get the impression that it is muslim fundamentalisis whom commits terrorism. That is a very sad misconception regarding Islam. It is a false misconception created by the Western people that I fear will never be cleared up. It is their ignorance that is controlling their hearts, and it is pitiful. Anyone who declares that a muslim fundamentalist commits terrorism is not lying, but it is an indoctrination that must be cleared up quickly.

[hawk]

Terrorism is not even within the boundaries of islam. Terrorism is something that even the christians consider a crime. Terrorism is by far the worst violence commited by man. I agree with you, unfortunately, people get the impression that it is muslim fundamentalisis whom commits terrorism. That is a very sad misconception regarding Islam. It is a false misconception created by the Western people that I fear will never be cleared up. It is their ignorance that is controlling their hearts, and it is pitiful. Anyone who declares that a muslim fundamentalist commits terrorism is not lying, but it is an indoctrination that must be cleared up quickly.

Sister Halima,
It is not a misconception created by western media,
need i remind you that all 19 men in the planes were muslim.
that osama bin laden is muslim
that Hamas is an islamic organisation
that the "freedom fighters" in palestine and chechnya are muslim, even though there were many christians in the palestine area,
bethlahem was majority christian, they suffered such severe persecution under muslims that they left their homeland to be refuges in mexico.
Did you know that there are 1,50,000 christian refuges in mexico from Palestine , and countless others in many other countries, all from muslim persecution


However not all muslims are terrorists, we understand this,
I am proud of my Muslim brothers and sisters, who live in this great country, and contribute to the diversity and wealth of this nation.
They are wonderful law abiding , peaceful people.

[Nabil]

Sister Halima,
It is not a misconception created by western media,
need i remind you that all 19 men in the planes were muslim.
that osama bin laden is muslim
that Hamas is an islamic organisation
that the "freedom fighters" in palestine and chechnya are muslim, even though there were many christians in the palestine area,
bethlahem was majority christian, they suffered such severe persecution under muslims that they left their homeland to be refuges in mexico.
Did you know that there are 1,50,000 christian refuges in mexico from Palestine , and countless others in many other countries, all from muslim persecution


However not all muslims are terrorists, we understand this,
I am proud of my Muslim brothers and sisters, who live in this great country, and contribute to the diversity and wealth of this nation.
They are wonderful law abiding , peaceful people.

Peace to you Halk.

Thats an interesting statistic. 1.5 million Christian Palestinians now living in Mexico?
These Palestinians must be Arabic speeking people. Where are they? Situated in comunities in Mexico City?

I live in a neighborhood that is heavily populated with Mexican immigrants and of the many I have met I have yet to bump into one who came hear to the US from Palestine.

Nabil.........

[hawk]

Peace to you Halk.

Thats an interesting statistic. 1.5 million Christian Palestinians now living in Mexico?
These Palestinians must be Arabic speeking people. Where are they? Situated in comunities in Mexico City?

I live in a neighborhood that is heavily populated with Mexican immigrants and of the many I have met I have yet to bump into one who came hear to the US from Palestine.

Nabil.........

Oh didnt i post 1,50,000, not 1.5 million, still they are there in mexico city.
There are now communities of Palestinian Christians in Australia and South America, as well as in the traditional refuges of Canada and the United States.

I believe the largest community is in Mexico city,
I actually wasnt aware of this, until I heard a Palestinian Christian tell us this in Church on Sunday.
To be fair, they dont really like Israeli rule either.
So its a combination of factors, and the fact that "the west is willing to take them in, because there is a real threat within their communities."

[xp²]

Peace,

I've heard that Christian Palestinians have supported Hamas and the other various groups against the Israeli occupation. Actually, there may have been a few who have collaborated and literally helped fight against the Israelis.

[Nabil]

Thanks for thre reply Halk.

Well I learned something new. Al-hamdulallah.

It seems to me that Christians would like to see peace come to Palestine as well. I hear the "Bushsharone" wall is cutting through many sites of historical value to Christians as well. Like the path that Jesus(peace be upon him) carried his cross. I wonder if the Israeli government has much respect for Christianity and the rights of Christians to maintain their holy sites.
As it stands now Isreal NEEDS the US. But how will they behave when and if our assistance is no longer nedded?

Nabil......