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Ansar Al-Haq

13th December 2004, 01:12

...

mule

13th December 2004, 01:21

I think it's in the bible. Parts of it sound very familar.

Yahya Sulaiman

13th December 2004, 18:19

Yes, the terms "Gog" and "Magog" are used frequently throughout both Testaments, especially together, and confusingly enough they tend to mean many different things. I think that the sense employed in the Koran is more or less the same as that used in the book of Revelation, where they are two as yet unknown kingdoms that will be known for their iniquity--or something like that--it's been a long time since I've been a Christian and studied these things in depth.

mastermind1

14th December 2004, 12:02

Asalam Aalaikum

As far as Yajooj and Majooj are concerned, their are some narratives of hadiths which mention about their arrival before the Day of Judgement and some signs about them are clearly mentioned in the sources in advance so that we could recognize them if we get a chance to view them.

One of the signs about them is that when they will appear ,they will fire arrows in the sky and the arrows will return with blood on them.

According to the interpretation of Some of the Muslim Scholars , Yajooj and Majooj have already appeared in the form of USA and Isreal and they interpret the firing of arrows in the sky as the missiles and bombs which USA and Isreal have developed in great number and we can see that USA is attacking Muslim Countries with heavy hands and is using its weapons against Iraq.

In Afghanistan, USA used its missile technology against Taliban and missiles backward form could be arrows which were used during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) since their was no missile technology during that time.

I would appreciate if my brothers present their views on this subject.

Waiting for reply

Regards,

mastermind1

14th December 2004, 12:06

Additional information:

The reason why Isreal and USA are considered as Yajooj and Majooj is because Yajooj and Majooj are not actually two individual personalities but are nations.

Allah Hafiz

Guest

16th December 2004, 17:50

Salaam noble mastermind.

Your ideas are colourful, i must admit, but i have one slight problem. What then is the wall of Dhul Qarnaein? When did America + Israel say "insha'Allah" and break through it? I also read that they would have very large ears, and G.Bush doesnt.

Ansar, the fact we havent detected them doesnt mean jack, to be frank. We cant the 2 angels on our shoulders, yet they are there, arent they? We cant detect Jinn, but they are there are they? You dont honestly think that science is the explanation to all things? Where is the Unseen in that equation?

The_Other_Admin

17th December 2004, 11:29

When did America + Israel say "insha'Allah" and break through it? I also read that they would have very large ears, and G.Bush doesnt.

First, big ears is not in authentic hadiths.
Second, "insha'Allah" means "if God wills" or "if God willing", and US is one of the few (if not the only country) countries in the west that uses God in lot of their statements.
Third, I'm not sure about Israel, but you interpret them as US according to Bible:

Revelation 20:
(7) When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison (8) and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. (9) They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. (10) And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev.20:6-10).

Ezekiel 39:
(1) "Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. (2) I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. (3) Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. (4) On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. (5) You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD . (6) I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD. (Ez.39:1-6).

(17) " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. (18) This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD . (19) In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. (20) The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. (21) I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD . Every man's sword will be against his brother. (22) I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. (23) And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD .' (Ez.38:14-23).

This is awfully similar to things that are prophesized, in hadiths, at the time of the arrival of Al Mehdi.

Regarding Israel, it could be symbolic and how you will interpret it if you consider the saying of Jesus (p) that the kingdom of God will be given to another nation?
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

ps: this is speculation, but it is a possiblity.

Ansar Al-Haq

17th December 2004, 14:28

Assalamu Alaykum,
As I havementioned before, I disagree with the notion that any of today's nations are Yajuj and Majuj because it does not fit with the story or any of the narrations. They are a race that is doomed to Hell which makes me wonder about issues of accountability for them.

So the explanation I gave is the one that seems most logical to me:
They are a hidden race of monsters...waiting.

mule

19th December 2004, 15:50

To find out who Gog and magog are I think a person should go back to Noah's 3 sons.

Gen 10:1 Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Gen 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

If you find out what people Japheth represents then you will know who Magog and gog are. I would think you would anyways.

I don't believe that Gog and magog are isreal and the us. I think maybe Russia or maybe even China. China is meantioned in the new testament.

I'm open though.

mule

mule

19th December 2004, 15:58

Here are your monsters Noble Ansar........

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men.

Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as [the teeth] of lions.

Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.

Scary.

mule

Nadeem

19th December 2004, 19:32

mule

19th December 2004, 20:31

Joy Nadeem,

Please can you explain how your above post refers to Gog and Magog?

Absolutely nothing. I think nothing anyways. Prophecy gets complicated. It was in reference to monsters. Sir Ansar's monsters.:happycycl :alien:

personally agree that both tribes descend from two of Noah(A)'s sons and are probably related to the tartaric races.

I am pretty sure that they are from only one of his sons.

I also agree with the hadith that they will come out from the barrier in the east(somewhere in central asia) to attack all on Earth whilst reaking havoc and causing much chaos.

This is in the bible. If you would like the verses I can surely look it up for you. End times stuff is interesting.

Have a nice day.
mule

Nadeem

19th December 2004, 20:35

Peace mule,

Only one!
I always thought it was two sons(maybe they were his grandsons),hence the two tribes;Yajuj and Majuj. :confused:

Please do show me where their emergence and behaviour are mentioned in the Bible,many thanks. :)

Peace and goodwill.

Ansar Al-Haq

19th December 2004, 20:59

Thanks for the monster post mule. It was an interesting read. :)
Yes, scary.

I still don't believe that Yajuj and Majuj are Russians or Chinese. It doesn't fit. These monsters are isolated right now, and we have no knowledge of them. Many russians and chinese are muslims. It is illogical to say that they are any present ethnicity.

Btw, Nadeem can you bring an authentic hadith that shows they are from Nuh?

mule

19th December 2004, 21:27

Nadeem,
I looked over the verses again and here is what I found.

I gave you a commentary about Gog and Magog. It seems to me we are both right. In one verse it talks about Gog and magog as if they are two peoples and in the other it talk as if Gog is the ruler of Magog or the cheif prince of something and something. But Why I think that they came from one of Noah's sons is because Magog is meantioned as being a desendant of Japheth. But I should have been more fair and said that this is just my opinion. Gog is also meantioned as being a son of Jewish Joel but I don't know if Gog is the same Gog.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1103492541-6236.html

1Ch 5:4 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The rest of the verses about Gog and Magog are very long so I just gave you the links. It talks about how they will be coming down from the north to attack Israel and that God will destroy all but a sixth of them. It talks about how it will take Israel 7 months to bury the dead. I think that if we could figure out who the people of Japheth are we might be able to figure out who these people are. There are some other verses that don't meantion Magog or gog and yet could very well be talking about them. I did not note them.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze038.html
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze039.html

The bible also meantions that the kings of the east will come through the Euphrates to go after I assume Israel. It says that the army will be 200,000,000. Where is the Euphrates? it's in Iraq. Anyways due east lays China. Russia and maybe Europe come from the north and China and friends come from the east. (On a side note China is the only country I know that is big enough to have an army so big. Isn't it remarkable how John was gifted 2000 years ago with the knowledge that the east would hold such an army?)

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

have a nice day,
mule

mule

19th December 2004, 21:37

I still don't believe that Yajuj and Majuj are Russians or Chinese. It doesn't fit. These monsters are isolated right now, and we have no knowledge of them. Many russians and chinese are muslims. It is illogical to say that they are any present ethnicity.

Ansar, In the bible it is not illogical because they come from the North. Magog is human. I think you have just been watching too much star wars movies. :eek: Have you ever thought that maybe that the monsters were just the best description of what ancient men saw? Maybe John of the bible was describing just what he saw. How would an anceint person that had never seen modern warfare describe what they saw? I am not talking about what is in islam but in the bible.

mule

Ansar Al-Haq

19th December 2004, 21:52

What are the key points the Bible makes about Gog and Magog?

So far, the Bible just makes them out to be angry tribes. Is there anything else?

I think calling Chinese people Gog is very racist.

mule

19th December 2004, 23:20

I think calling Chinese people Gog is very racist.

I don't believe that Gog is the Chinese people. Do you think that I am being a racist by saying that I think that Russia and Europe are Magog and Gog? Even if I did think that the Chinese people were Gog I would not be racist. Be reasonable.

What are the key points the Bible makes about Gog and Magog?

So far, the Bible just makes them out to be angry tribes. Is there anything else?

I gave you the verses and my opinion.

What else should there be? It just says that they will make war against Israel and they will be butchered.

mule

Ansar Al-Haq

20th December 2004, 00:00

Ok, I just wanted to know if that was all there was in the Bible.

So there is not much known about them in either Christianity or Islam.

Nadeem

21st December 2004, 23:06

Btw, Nadeem can you bring an authentic hadith that shows they are from Nuh?

Salaam Bro,

I am sorry I cannot and I only said that they are likely to be from Nuh(A),meaning that is what I thought!
My opinion based on some sources such as the Bible and Ibn Kathir's 'Al-Bidayah wa'l-Nihayah'.

Please read this interesting page as it covers the topic very well;
http://muslimsonline.com/babri/yajujmajuj.htm

Wasalaam.

Ansar Al-Haq

22nd December 2004, 00:24

Yes, that did sound familiar. I remember reading it in Al-Bidayah Wa-Nihayah, now that you mention it. But that is still opinion, I believe.

I read the link. It is very comprehensive on the traditional ideas.

But if you agree with those views then you must say that Gog anbd Magog are already out and about. The mongols would be the first wave I guess.
Do you think they are already out?

Can we not do some sort of scientific investigation to locate any hidden subterannean caverns inhabited by them?

Nadeem

22nd December 2004, 00:35

Salaam Ansar,

Yes it is only opinion and there is no solid evidence that they are from Nuh(A),but we cannot say for certain that they are not from him either. :confused:
Allah(SWT) truly knows best. :)

That page also covers peoples opinions on who Yajuj and Majuj may be.

I personally don't believe that they are out and about because the hadith clearly says they are behind a barrier which they have been trying to penetrate.
The Holy Qur'an also clearly tells us that they were trapped behind this barrier.
When they have completely penetrated it,then they will rush out in all directions and this will happen after Easa(A) returns. :)

So I don't know how people can say that they are already out and try to identify them by races living in their area.:confused:

Wasalaam.

Ansar Al-Haq

22nd December 2004, 00:43

So we can effectively cancel out that opinion that they are a race/nation known to us.

The only alternative I see is the opinion I put forward (subteranean monsters). Is there anything else?

Osman

22nd December 2004, 14:46

I personally don't believe that they are out and about because the hadith clealry says they are behind a barrier which they have been trying to penetrate.
The Holy Qur'an also clearly tells us that they were trapped behind this barrier.
When they have completely penetrated it,then they will rush out in all directions and this will happen after Easa(A) returns. :)
Wasalaam.

A cassette I have by Maulana Ahmad Ali says that they keep trying to penetrate a wall (<-Same thing?) and then they rest for the night and then when they return in the morning they find the wall completely restored. This keeps happening and Alla (SWT) doesn't let them think to carry on trying to penetrate the wall through the night instead of going to rest and finding it restored in the morning. This is true, isn't it? yay or nay? :)

hasan

22nd December 2004, 15:52

I remember when at one of the lectures I attended many years ago a lecturer, an ex SAS captain...pleasant fellow..used to digress and talk about his training and missions breif as they were...he mentioned a time when he was in China where he heard stories from villagers about people coming out from underneath the ground..happening on occasion.. walking bewildered and entering upon villagers..over many years...gradually settling into village life...telling people how they had been living under the ground and how there is a society there..they had found a way out somehow and wished not to return..I always wanted to talk about it more with him..but held back..

Strange but true...

Ansar Al-Haq

22nd December 2004, 16:03

A cassette I have by Maulana Ahmad Ali says that they keep trying to penetrate a wall (<-Same thing?) and then they rest for the night and then when they return in the morning they find the wall completely restored. This keeps happening and Alla (SWT) doesn't let them think to carry on trying to penetrate the wall through the night instead of going to rest and finding it restored in the morning. This is true, isn't it? yay or nay? :)

Yes, that's from a hadith.

Osman

22nd December 2004, 17:06

Oh:)

Nadeem

17th February 2005, 21:07

Ansar Al-Haq

17th February 2005, 22:27

thanks for the info bro.

Ahmed Waheed

18th February 2005, 14:59

Salaam all,

Well I have found some interesting material here. :cheer: :cool:
Please visit www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#ma'juj (http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#ma'juj).:)

Wasalaam.
Assalam . . .

:shiny: Some quite good info, and a good step off the Thul-Qarnayn road. Although I don't entirely agree with going with a set of four walls to choose from.

Wassalam . . .

Al-Boriqi

8th March 2005, 01:30

intresting read
as for this

The reason why Isreal and USA are considered as Yajooj and Majooj is because Yajooj and Majooj are not actually two individual personalities but are nations.

juj and majuj is not usa and israel even though they fit the description of ruthlessness.

from the sons of Japeth the son of Nuh alaihi salam, and I think both of them were from Japeth.
The decsendence of Japeth sence they settled in northern khurasan throughtout the east happen to be the tartaric races. From them are the originals who are the mongols, then the tartar turk, other turk tribes, and all of the asiatic peoples or China, Southeast Asia, Korea, and Japan.
But as for the chinese, Japanese, and the southeasternasians then they have been mixed with the indians of from the decsendants other than Japeth.

But the original tribes of Japeth were of Mongol and turk blood since these two were the main tribes of Japeth.

Im not racist in the least and very against it and ISlam is also against it since the prophet described qawmiyyah (tribalism or nationalism) to be like the dung bettle meaning that the muslim who is infected with tribalism, racism is like the dung bettle and has adopted the practices of jaahiliyyah (preislamic ignorance).

But at the same time the prophet narrated to us that he does not marry women from the tribe of " " (I forget which tribe) because the women are to jealous". So this shows that at the same time different races or ethnic groups can be categorized through their ways (and not for the propagation of racism and hatred) but for distinction.

So in this realm only we know that even from history the mongols were a very barbaric type of people and even today many that have not lived in the world as the way we do have these tendencies as well in their country.

Im not saying that they are the Mongols or any specific race but they are from a tribe that are directly related to them and you see these very characteristics in them. Even the Manchurian of China. In Chinese history these were a very ruthless, intolerable, barbaric people who took over chinese territory from time to time, and the manchurians are related to the Mongols.

Again these are all theoretical and not absolute truth but the evidence i brought I beleive has some weight to it and Allah knows best.

as the people juj and majuj themselves then they are not in a place that any man knows. The are hidden an their numbers are many and the reports from the hadeeth state that they number more than the whole population of mankind all the way to the begining. So if you were to add up all the men from the time of Adam to now (including the dead) then their numbers are still greater.

They are a real people, a race.

another intresting point is that the areas of Uzbekistan, Khasastan, and just west of mongolia are land that are very rigid and wheere there is very minimal amounst of civilization due to its climate.there is plenty of land their plenty for a whole race of this kind to be somewhere in there. There are vast areas of regions were man that we know now has not even gone by foot due to the terrain after years . and since Dhul-Qarnan

What sparked my sences to the pointed of chills was this

I remember when at one of the lectures I attended many years ago a lecturer, an ex SAS captain...pleasant fellow..used to digress and talk about his training and missions breif as they were...he mentioned a time when he was in China where he heard stories from villagers about people coming out from underneath the ground..happening on occasion.. walking bewildered and entering upon villagers..over many years...gradually settling into village life...telling people how they had been living under the ground and how there is a society there..they had found a way out somehow and wished not to return..I always wanted to talk about it more with him..but held back..

This can be the truthand Allah knows best. I dont see and Allah knows best how this would go against the hadeeth because even if a few who did find an escape then that doesn mean the whole race since what is mentioned in the hadeeth is that the "tribes". So if one or two or 100 of them escaped then they do not represent the tribe but only a fraction. example tampa or seattle is not considered the nation of america but the mainland 48 states could be considered the whole tribe of america (not saying that america is one tribe but using it as an example) this also strengthens what first said as well but is not absolute since Allah and His messenger know best.

unrealdigital

29th March 2005, 18:01

They are a real people, a race.
That cannot be stressed enough.

ganedio

1st July 2005, 10:01

The Geographic Location of the Yajuj and Majuj Wall
Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I suppose that geographic location of the wall of Yajuj and Majuj have some identities, i.e.

1. A lake. The walls have dammed series of hills. Water have accumulated in the ring hills become a lake.

2. A part of the hills have a core contains high concentrated metals (iron+copper). Sedimentation have covered both beside of the metal walls for years become a normal hill. May be part of the metal (iron) have been corrosion.

3. A part of outside the hills have a low level ground surface. If the part is broken (the metal pile has been weak), water(ice) and rubbish (stone, mud, plant) from higher hills will push and shatter this area and go out to other site on lower surface.

4. If there are no a lake but a layer of high sedimentation, inside the hills have some cuves, deep holes, and water in the underground. There are a good living system.

I want to know, are Yajuj and Majuj are a kind of lava, a kind of mud, a kind of ice (gletser), a kind of animal, a kind of evil, or a kind of people (little people with about 30 inch tall)?

Do they have relation with khubutsi and khabaaits?

Al Qur'an and Hadist have some symbols that we has to think it. The End Day has been more and more near. The location has to be found for safety and security.

If the wall has been found and dug, it will be to change the world extremely, because truth of Alquran is very clear. May be Paus will be a moslem and enemies of Islam will be very angry as Pharaoh.

Thank you very much.

hasan

1st July 2005, 11:40

Ahmed Waheed

1st July 2005, 13:55

ganedio,

are there stories of little people living up in the mountains or deep in the jungle amongst Indonesian tradition? Wasn't there a discovery of a small skull recently that became the "talk about evolution" amongst academics?

Assalam . . . :D

:p Yajuj and Majuj were actually a Turkish-Crete people, from the decendents of the people of Nuh . . . :p

Wassalam . . .

ilyas

1st July 2005, 14:24

i still dont get it though if the gog and magog are any of them mentioned countries then wat about the wall built by zul qurnain

ilyas

1st July 2005, 14:25

i still dont get it though if the gog and magog are any of them mentioned countries then wat about the wall built by zul qurnain. I havn't heard of any wall stopping people from these countries from coming out

ilyas

1st July 2005, 14:26

sos for repeating myself (accident)

Abrarur

2nd July 2005, 17:20

najem

5th July 2005, 05:53

...
Assalamu Alikum,

A book was written by Sheikh Imran Hosein, in his book he mention's verse Number 95 and 96 of chapter "Al-Anbiyâ` - The Prophets" in Quraan Kareem.

95: And it is forbidden to a town, which we have destroyed that they return.

96: Until when Yajuj and Maujuj would be let loose and they will be coming down from every height.

Then he refer to Jerusalem which the people of this town could not claim the town for them for last 2000 years. It was sometime 1944 that the people of this town was brought back.

He refers this power who brought them back to this town was the Gog and Magog who come from every heights (fighter Jets).

Could some one please enlighten me in this.

ganedio

5th July 2005, 07:44

I believe that The Yajuj and Majuj Wall is exist. That is not evidence to oppose it. It is explained in Alquran. No Holy Book go down next Alquran after two milenium. Alquran is holy book for end of periode. No holy book better than Alquran.

The wall is a giant dam from iron block with copper coated and glued. It need some iron, copper, and coal(wood) in great quantities. There are near mining of iron, copper, and coal. The wall dammed a gap of rock hill.

There are many story to explain the wall. Now, we play a zigsaw puzzle game for create the right history. Throw out some piece that it's no part of the history and no suitable with the glorious character of the Prophet.

They have dug Pyramid in Egypt. And who will dig sediment that cover the wall of Yajuj and Majuj?

How Alquran explain to past people who have low knowledge about geology? It is explained in surah An Naml:88. Mountain move as cloud. If seen a moment, cloud as not move. If seen continuous, cloud is move. It is simple. Now, it can be explained by science of geology clearly.

Ahmed Waheed

5th July 2005, 10:56

any possibility of Yajuj and Majuj being aliens?

How will Imam Mahdi emerge?Some sources say that Jesus(PBUH) will descend from the sky.Will Mahdi emerge like that or will he be born in a family in Middle East?

I thought the line of Mohammad(PBUH) has perished.

Assalam . . . :p

:D This question has been asked before, very recently in LI Islamic Forum . . . :strong: And I've answered it:

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/sl.gif

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif Actually no it hasn't come to an end. And furthermore there are thousands of Saheeh Ahadith regarding the Ahlul Bayt on the topic of the people of Authority, narrated by 57 of the closest companions of the Prophet http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/islam/arabic6.gif . . . You can find some stuff I posted in UI forum; I'll post some links here Insha-Allah . . . http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/wa.gif

:cool: And also:

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/sl.gif

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/teeth.gif Jazak-Allah for your kind words . . . http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/thumbs_up.gif

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/shade.gif And here come's the links . . . http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

http://forums.understanding-islam.o...ight=follow.pdf (http://showthread.php?t=852&page=4&pp=15&highlight=follow.pdf)

http://forums.understanding-islam.o...ight=follow.pdf (http://showthread.php?t=852&page=5&pp=15&highlight=follow.pdf)

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif And finally . . . http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif http://forums.understanding-islam.o...ttachmentid=164 (http://attachment.php?attachmentid=164)

http://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/wa.gif

:D Please feel free to ask further questions if you are not entirely satisfied with the answers provided . . . :p

:D If those links do not work; you can follow them up from: http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?p=51447#post51447

Wassalam . . . :D

Abrarur

5th July 2005, 11:08

hehe brother I was the one who asked the question.Sorry for the repititon please forgive me.

The Shah

5th July 2005, 13:00

The thing is, the arrival of Yajuj and Majuj is after Prophet 'Isa defeats Dajjal. Humankind will pray to Allah for their defeat, and they will develop boils that kill them.

Many people say that Dzulqarnain is Al-Eskandar (Alexander) of Macedonia, some say he is Cyrus the Great, some say he is King Dzulqarnain of Himyar, Yemen, others say he's an angel, etc. The important role he plays in this is that he built the wall that restrained the Yajuj and Majuj tribes.

The fact that Dzulqarnain is Alexander the Great doesn't seem to tally with what we know of Alexander from non-Islamic sources. Alexander seemed to be a greedy, wine-drinking ruler, while Dzulqarnain is a just and mukminin king, although his empire was powerful. One of the most powerful empires i know is the Roman Empire, anyhow.

Dzulqarnain as Cyrus... well, if u understand Malay, u mite wanna go to http://www.saifulislam.com/artikel/dzulqarnain.htm.
According to this website, the wall of Dzulqarnain is the 'Daryal Pass'. In Russia, btwn two towns of Derbent and Khuzar in Dagestan, there's this narrow pass called The Iron Gate, aka Alexander's Wall
Visit http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/D/DE/DERBENT.htm for details. I'll try to find photos of this gate. Anyway, the gate built by Dzulqarnain was made of IRON and it was built to cover a gap between rock hills. Allah knows, but maybe the two towns used to be 'rock hills'??

Yep, Magog was a son of Jepheth bin Nuh alaihisalam, as stated by the Biblical Genealogy. http://www.d.umn.edu/~jbelote/bible2.html
Assuming it's correct.

Dzulqarnain is said to be a descendent of 'Ibrahim through Yakus (Jeush) bin al-Eis (Esau) bin Ishak, according to some ulama's.

If i've got anything new, i'll tell.
Salams

ganedio

6th July 2005, 02:40

Visit http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/D/DE/DERBENT.htm for details. I'll try to find photos of this gate. Anyway, the gate built by Dzulqarnain was made of IRON and it was built to cover a gap between rock hills. Allah knows, but maybe the two towns used to be 'rock hills'??

Assalamualaikum Shah,

May be, last people have studied about Zulkarnaen Wall technology. They have built walls in other site as Zulkarnaen built, but materials of wall are different. Thus, Location of Yajuj and Majuj Wall is yet mysterious.

Wassalam,

Ganedio

The Shah

7th July 2005, 07:52

Salam Ganedio

Yepp, actually only Allah Ta'Ala knows the location of the Dzulqarnain Wall. The only time we can ever hope to find out is if we can survive till the actual release of the Yajuj and Majuj. And brrr. I hate to think what will happen when it does.

Wassalam, Shah

ganedio

5th August 2005, 10:33

Background on the Drilling to Hell story
By Rich Buhler

I first heard about this story from people who started calling my radio program to ask about it in the early 1990s. There was such a flurry of calls that I finally promised the listeners I'd look into it. Most of the callers said they'd heard the story on Trinity Broadcasting Network, a Christian television network that originates from Southern California.
I called Trinity Broadcasting headquarters and asked about the story. I was transferred to a woman who said, 'Oh yes, it's true all right. We've got documentation. It's in our latest newsletter.'

I was on the network's mailing list, so I looked through a pile of recent mail and found the article. The newsletter said the details had come from the translation of an article in a Finnish newspaper named 'Ammennusatia'. It claimed:

A geological group who drilled a hole about 14.4 kilometers deep in the crust of the earth are saying that they heard human screams. Screams have been heard from the condemned souls from earth's deepest hole. Terrified scientists are afraid they have let loose the evil powers of hell up to the earth's surface.
'The information we are gathering is so surprising, that we are sincerely afraid of what we might find down there,' stated Dr Azzacov, the manager of the project in remote Siberia.

According to the story, the geologists were dumbfounded. After they had drilled several kilometers through the earth's crust, the drill bit suddenly began to rotate wildly. 'There is only one explanation,' said Dr Azzacov. 'The deep center of the earth is hollow!' The report continued:
The second surprise was the high temperature they discovered in the earth's center. 'The calculations indicate the given temperature was about 1,100 degrees Celsius, or over 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit,' Azzacov pointed out. 'This is far more then we expected. It seems almost like an inferno of fire is brutally going on in the center of the earth.'

'The last discovery was nevertheless the most shocking to our ears, so much so that the scientists are afraid to continue the project. We tried to listen to the earth's movements at certain intervals with supersensitive microphones, which were let down through the hole. What we heard turned those logically thinking scientists into a trembling ruins. It was a sometimes a weak, but high pitched sound which we thought to be coming from our own equipment,' explained Dr Azzacov.

'But after some adjustments we comprehended that indeed the sound came from the earth's interior. We could hardly believe our own ears. We heard a human voice, screaming in pain. Even though one voice was discernible, we could hear thousands, perhaps millions, in the background, of suffering souls screaming. After this ghastly discovery, about half of the scientists quit because of fear. Hopefully, that which is down there will stay there,' Dr Azzacov added.

According to the Trinity Broadcasting Network newsletter, the Finnish article had been given to them by a Texas evangelist, R.W. Schambach, who was a frequent guest on their network.

We checked with Schambach's office and were assured that the story was 'absolutely true' and had been substantiated. They said they had an article from a 'respected scientific journal' in Finland, as well as a letter from a Norwegian man, Age Rendalen, who had confirmed it. Rendalen had sent his letter directly to Trinity Broadcasting Network and the details he revealed added a new dimension to the story.

Rendalen told the network that he had visited United States a few weeks earlier and happened upon their telecast about the Drilling to Hell story. He wrote:

I must confess that I laughed when I heard your account... I did not believe one word of it, and commented to my friend that Americans sure were gullible to believe that hell could be physically located to a hole in the ground. I cannot even begin to tell you what a shock it was to me when I returned to Norway and found the newspapers full of reports about this incident. I knew immediately that if there was a hell, I for sure would end up in it. A tremendous fear took hold of me, and for two nights I dreamed about fire and screams until I surrendered to God and committed my life to his hands for safe-keeping.
In the letter, Rendalen went on to encourage the network not to let 'skeptics' interfere with their telling of the story. He included a copy and translation of what he claimed was an article from Norway's largest and most reputable newspaper, with more information about the drilling.
Rendalen's translation of the article told of opposition to the drilling by Russian atheists, as well as government intimidation to keep the scientists from telling the rest of the world about their discovery. The account, which drew on the eyewitness testimony of a Mr Nummedal, also added a new detail:

What really unnerved the Soviets, apart from the voice recordings, was the appearance that same night of a fountainhead of luminous gas shooting up from the drill site, and out of the midst of this incandescent cloud pillar a brilliant being with bat wings revealed itself with the words (in Russian): 'I have conquered,' emblazoned against the dark Siberian sky.
'The incident was absolutely unreal; the Soviets cried out in terror,' says Mr Nummedal. Later that night, he saw ambulance crews circulating in the community. A driver he knew told him that they had been told to sedate everybody with a medication known to erase short term memory. The Soviets use this drug in the treatment of shock victims.

So we now had not only a story about drilling into hell, but an additional version with a bat-like creature making an appearance.
My staff and I decided to roll up our shirt sleeves and trace the story as far as we could, especially since we had the names of newspapers and at least one individual who might know the facts.

The Finnish newspaper 'Ammennusastia,' which is quoted in nearly every account of the story, is located in an area called Levasjoki. We had a phone conversation with a staff member who told us the publication is not a 'respected newspaper' or a 'scientific journal', as we had been told, but a monthly publication of a group of Finnish Christians. The Drilling to Hell story, he said, had been based on the word of mouth recollection of another staff member, who had remembered reading it as a 'major article' in a Finnish daily newspaper called 'Etela Soumen'.

We contacted this newspaper and at first they couldn't recall or find the story. However, we later received a call saying they had discovered that the tale had appeared in their paper. It was not in an article, however, but in a feature section that included letters from readers who could write about almost anything they wished.

Through the newspaper, we tracked down the person who wrote the letter with the Drilling to Hell story. He was a kind, elderly man who, in spite of being reluctant to talk with us initially, told us through an interpreter that he couldn't vouch for the credibility of the story. He got it, he said, from a Christian newsletter called 'Vaeltajat', which was published by a group of Finnish missionaries.

We next contacted 'Vaeltajat'. The editor said the story had been printed in their July 1989 issue. Where did he hear about it? He had received it from one of their readers, who claimed it had appeared in a newsletter called 'Jewels of Jericho', published by a group of Jewish Christians in California. And that is where the Finnish trail came to an end.

One thing was clear at this point: The Drilling to Hell story was looking and smelling like a pretty typical urban legend. It was sensational, impossible to document, and only had life because of all the small publications that were quoting one another's unsubstantiated stories.

However, there was still the Norwegian man, Age Rendalen, who had told the story of the ominous, bat-like creature emerging from the drill-hole. The article in the Trinity Broadcasting Network newsletter said he lived near Oslo, so we called directory assistance and found him in about 45 seconds. I talked with him on the phone myself:

'Are you the one who sent information to a Christian television network in the United States about scientists drilling into hell?' I asked.
'Yes,' he said without hesitation.

'Well,' I continued, 'Do you have any way of knowing whether it is true?'

'Yes I do,' he replied.

'Tell me about it,' I asked.

'None of it is true,' he said. 'I fabricated every word of it!'

Rendalen went on to explain that he had visited the US a few weeks earlier and had seen the host of a Christian television program enthusiastically relating the Drilling to Hell story. He told me: 'I couldn't believe that the hosts really thought the story was true and that they would broadcast it without apparently having checked it out.'
When he returned to Norway, Rendalen sat down and fabricated the graphic story of the bat-like creature and sent his letter to the television network. His prediction was that they would use the story without investigating it. To make an investigation easy for them, he included his name, address and telephone number on his letter. He also included what he claimed was an article on the story from 'Norway's largest and most reputable newspaper'. In fact, the article, which he falsely translated, was a piece in his local community paper about a building inspector.

Rendalen also included the name and telephone number of a pastor friend based in Southern California. This pastor knew about the hoax and was prepared to reveal the truth if someone called to research it further with him.

However, as predicted, Trinity Broadcasting Network ran the story without contacting Renalden or the Californian pastor, and it appeared on television, radio and in a large number of publications. None of those who used the story attempted to research it before going public.

'2000 PEOPLE HAVE FOUND CHRIST!'

On 6th February 1990, a listener of mine sent me a letter. She had videotaped and documented all three occasions when this story was discussed on the Christian TV show put out by the network. On 29th January 1990, the show host is documented as saying:

Let me just say, all of you that have written me all those nasty letters about the 'hole in hell', let me tell you I finally got the newspaper article which is from 'The World Weekly'. This is an international newspaper that has been translated into English from Finnish. 'Scientists fear they've opened gates of hell! Geologists drilling nine-mile hole hear human shrieks.'
I got a letter today from a geologist in Oklahoma and he's really giving me a rough time. He says that there isn't anything that could drill that deep. Folks, I'm just reporting what people have been sending to me and I don't know if this is true or not. I know one thing, if this is a trick of the Devil, he sure has blown it, because I know of about 2,000 people that have found Christ because of it!

True or false, I'll tell you what I'm doing, though. We're now going to do some investigative reporting of our own and we're going to check with the Finnish government and the Department of the Interior and we're really going to follow this up and see if they really did drill a hole nine miles down there, if they really did have a microphone down there, if they really did hear human shrieks of agony and pain as this newspaper article and as did many letters I have received from over there have indicated to us. If I'm wrong and they're right, I've got nothing to lose. But if I'm right and you're wrong, you've got everything to lose.

Unfortunately, the investigation by the show took place too late to prevent the damage of a widely spread rumor in the Christian community.
Rendalen has now issued an official statement about his actions and the whole incident, which says: 'The story is nothing more than a Christian "urban legend" without basis in reality.'

There are a couple of postscripts to this incident. One is that the respected magazine, 'Biblical Archaeology Review', printed a story about the Drilling to Hell story, thinking it was so outrageous that readers would get a kick out of it. Many of the readers took the article seriously, however, and either started passing it around as substantiation of the story, or wrote to the magazine to complain that it shouldn't have given it respectability.

Secondly, in August of 1990, I was contacted by the pastor of a small church in Flagstaff, Arizona, who informed me that he had proof that this story was true. Apparently, a man from his church, who was believed to be a PhD in Physics from MIT, came forward in private to claim that he was a scientist who had been on a secret mission in Russia for the past year and had met with Mikhail Gorbachev several times. He verified that the Drilling to Hell story was indeed true. He claimed:

A hole was drilled deep into the crust of the earth in Siberia and a large cavity was found. Unfortunately, news of this was leaked to the press and was distorted. It is true that a recording was made of the sounds from deep in the hole, but the intense heat destroyed the microphone in spite of special cooling material around it, so that only seventeen seconds of sounds could be captured. At the present time, scientists are drilling a second hole to confirm what was found the first time. And a better system is being developed for cooling the microphone.
The scientist went on to claim that he was helping to design this microphone and was returning to Siberia shortly to further document the phenomenon. He planned to return in about a year with more confirming information on this amazing phenomenon.
Six months later, I got a letter from another member of the church saying that this man had turned out to be neither a graduate of MIT nor a scientist. In fact, he had skipped town with over $20,000 collected from church members who wanted to help finance his expedition.

How did this story originate? Again, we will never really know. It is possible that somewhere in the world there has been a spooky experience during deep drilling operations. I don't know. According to an August 1989 article in 'Science' magazine, there is a Russian deep hole drilling project in Kola, near Murmansk, about 150 miles north of the Arctic Circle. Another German deep drilling experiment in north-east Bavaria has discovered warmer temperatures than were expected at certain drilling levels, although nothing even close to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

Characteristic of many urban legends, this story was alleged to have occurred in an obscure part of the world where it would be virtually impossible to track down the facts. And once the story got started, people began quoting one another's newsletters to validate their own. This is the stuff of which tabloid newspapers are made.

MP3:
http://amightywind.com/mp3/hellscreams.mp3

REAL AUDIO:
http://amightywind.com/real/hellscreams.ra

The Shah

5th August 2005, 13:23

Well if they're so scared of letting hell loose on earth, wait till THEY die. Maybe they'll visit the place.

So the story is fake? Even if it was true, maybe the heat got to their heads and made them hear things.

2000 PEOPLE HAVE FOUND CHRIST. Yippee. :cool: There's Christ right there... do you see...? Yep that hot and fiery room there... go on in... u'll find Christ there... oh, wait... did i forget to mention??? that's hell! :evul: :D

sorry, can't help myself.
Good post though, bro ganedio. Assalamu'alaikum.

ganedio

8th August 2005, 02:17

Assalamualaikum Shah,

If the story from Dr Azzacov and the recording of scream sound are true, I hear the sound as people struggle to obtain a hole to earth surface. The sound from 14.4 killometres is too far to be recorded. The heat have broken drill pipe and heat steam have gone in the cave. If they live in a cave about 200 meters deep, may be they are Yajuj and Majuj. If it is true, 2.000.000.000 Christ People will be found Moslem.

But, it need a real research for truthful.

Wassalam,

Ganedio

ganedio

30th August 2005, 10:15

There are many special animal live in the old caves, example, fish, shrimp, crab, spider, cockroach, worm. They are not exist in the other site. Fish and shrimp have not got eye. Giant cockroach (8-10 cm) live in an old cave in Kalimantan, Indonesia.

There are many special fish and worm in base of deep sea. They have got antenna and light.

Yajuj and Majuj maybe a kind of primate that live in the caves.

jihadi101

5th September 2005, 12:19

yajuj and majuj are too diiferent tribes wo are under a big great wall made by a king.(whos name does not come to mind)

and the story is that one day both tribes will be digging and didiging and 1 day will say "inshallah" and they will see the light from outside. then as they come out the will drink and eat everything that will come in there way. they will drink all the water from the rivers and kill all people who come in there way.

BUt in a little cave theyre will be prophet isa (jesus) with a couple of people. and then yahjuj and mahjuj will have killed everything on earth and will start to shoot arrows in the sky. and allah (SWT) will make the arrows come back down with blood to show that mahjuj have killer allah. then yahjuj and mahjuj will have thought they are the only people on earth and they control the world. but then prophet isa will do dua to allah and ask him to destory yahuuj and mahjuj. so then allah will put a disese on them and they will start rotting away and then it will take proophet isa and the people 7 Years to clean up after the rotting of yahjuj and mahjuj. this is the story of yahjujand mahjuj and this is very very close sign to the day of judjement and is after the appereane of prophet isa.

The Shah

6th September 2005, 07:30

jihadi101

10th September 2005, 20:54

yahjuj and majuj are tribes

and also the djaal is on a little island where no one knows.

he could be found but wont be.

in the time of the prophet there was a ship witha crew and they were hit by a storm and were taken to an island. there they saw the djall on the oisalnd stuck in a cave.

and then they left the island and they went to the prophet and told him the story. and then the prphet told then the description and it matched what the people said.

he will be another very close sign to the day of judgment.

Abdu-Rahman

13th September 2005, 10:41

Here is discussion answering for you all, even fitting view of Bible:

http://forums.understanding-islam.org/community/showthread.php?t=2072

Gog and Magog were Mongol-invaders who conquest Asia and even advanced on Europe on 13th and 14th centuries. They attacked "Israel" (area of it) from North towards Damascus, where they were stopped.

They even destroyed Bagdad, capital of Califate and civilizations in the world, "city He loves", as bible said it.

The Shah

17th September 2005, 07:25

One thing i was thinking about when reading the geocities article, brother AR, was what about the wall that became the barrier between the tribes and the rest of the world? If really the Mongols were the Gog or Magog tribes, then they should be behind a wall right now. In fact, this wall will perish one day, letting the tribes swarm out.

018.098
YUSUFALI: He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true."
PICKTHAL: He said: This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord cometh to pass, He will lay it low, for the promise of my Lord is true.
SHAKIR: He said: This is a mercy from my Lord, but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass He will make it level with the ground, and the promise of my Lord is ever true.
BUT, this day will be when the Hidden Imam Mahdi has emerged, Dajjal has arrived to terrorize the world, and even Prophet of Allah Jesus son of Mary has descended, slayed Dajjal, and bring the world peace.

But of course, nobody save Allah knows the truth. Yet.

I was thinking. Why don't we attempt to see the Hadiths on Gog, Magog and King Dzulqarnain in a less literal view? The Quran, Work of Allah, has many hidden meanings. So does the words of Prophet Muhammad. Let's give metaphor a chance.

From geocities:
"According to hadiths there is going to be more people in Gog and Magog than Muslims (followers of prophet Adam) put together: Mongols conquered China and most from Asia, before they attacked Islam, accepted Islam and stop attacks against Muslims. Perhaps Magog was Mongols and Gog rest of Asia they conquered (like China), or other way around. That was around 1200/1300, so there were only some tens of millions of Muslims, but in China alone (in Mongol rule) was hundreds of millions of people at that time. And remember that hadiths can contain errors, if it meant that "Gog and Magog" will have more people than offspring of (followers of) Adam all together, that should mean they are aliens, as otherwise they would also be from offspring of Adam. "

Consider this:
Gog and Magog are said to amount to more than the children of Adam [from the time of Adam to the end of time] put together. The ratio of Gog and Magog to the children of Adam is 10:1.

This does not seem to make sense. Gog and Magog are also children of Adam, [according to some ulama such as al-Alusi, Wahab ibn Munabbih and others], descendents of Japheth, a son of Noah [Yafith bin Nuh, This piece of information can be found in the Torah].Therefore, since Gog and Magog ARE part of 'children of Adam', how can they be MORE than the children of Adam?

It probably means that at the time when Gog and Magog break out of their barrier, and try to dominate the world, their power is so great that they overpower everyone. Their force is so strong and savage that nobody is capable of stopping them. It will seem as if people are outnumbered, or rather out-powered.

Another possibility will be that the number of people at that time will be less than it is now. Remember, when the tribes break out, Dajjal has just been defeated by Prophet Isa, and so has the 70,000-strong Jewish army Dajjal has with him. Also, during the reign of Dajjal, the number of Muslims in the world will be extremely small. Such that when Prophet Isa descends to the White Minaret of the Omayyad Mosque, the jemaah which is doing the Fajr prayer at that time will consist of only 800 men and 400 women. This jemaah happens to be one of the very few jemaah at that time. Thus, the number of Gogs and Magogs may greatly pass that of the number of people in the world, or the number of Muslims, during that time.

Of course, i may be wrong. Wallahu Alam.

Abdu-Rahman (Kai)

17th September 2005, 11:40

One thing i was thinking about when reading the geocities article, brother AR, was what about the wall that became the barrier between the tribes and the rest of the world? If really the Mongols were the Gog or Magog tribes, then they should be behind a wall right now. In fact, this wall will perish one day, letting the tribes swarm out.

Salaam!

As I had written on that geocities page (you could not have missed it):

"Then he arrived area 230 kilometers south-east from Bukhara, where he build Iron Gate to protect people who did not speak his language (Turkish) as protection against "Gog and Magog"-people (Mongols). As Allah had promised, this gate was later destroyed in this narrow canyon. Yet on 7th century Chinese traveler and 985-986 Arabian traveler reported and wrote about this gate made of iron blocks. So these are (in one direction) borders of kingdom of Alexander."

Of course iron gate can be also western end of Great Wall of China, there is pass in canyon called "Iron Gate". And Mongols are right now behind that Great Wall, look at the map (in fact they are geographically from view of Muslims/Mecca/Medina also behind that already destroyed Iron Gate border of Afganistan/Pakistan).

018.098
YUSUFALI: He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true."
PICKTHAL: He said: This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord cometh to pass, He will lay it low, for the promise of my Lord is true.
SHAKIR: He said: This is a mercy from my Lord, but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass He will make it level with the ground, and the promise of my Lord is ever true.
BUT, this day will be when the Hidden Imam Mahdi has emerged, Dajjal has arrived to terrorize the world, and even Prophet of Allah Jesus son of Mary has descended, slayed Dajjal, and bring the world peace.

But of course, nobody save Allah knows the truth. Yet.

I have understood that Dajjal or Jesus appearing at same time with Gog and Magog is only interpretation and connecting different hadiths together. I have heard that they or order of their appearance has not been mentioned together in any hadith.

I was thinking. Why don't we attempt to see the Hadiths on Gog, Magog and King Dzulqarnain in a less literal view? The Quran, Work of Allah, has many hidden meanings. So does the words of Prophet Muhammad. Let's give metaphor a chance.

From geocities:
"According to hadiths there is going to be more people in Gog and Magog than Muslims (followers of prophet Adam) put together: Mongols conquered China and most from Asia, before they attacked Islam, accepted Islam and stop attacks against Muslims. Perhaps Magog was Mongols and Gog rest of Asia they conquered (like China), or other way around. That was around 1200/1300, so there were only some tens of millions of Muslims, but in China alone (in Mongol rule) was hundreds of millions of people at that time. And remember that hadiths can contain errors, if it meant that "Gog and Magog" will have more people than offspring of (followers of) Adam all together, that should mean they are aliens, as otherwise they would also be from offspring of Adam. "

Consider this:
Gog and Magog are said to amount to more than the children of Adam [from the time of Adam to the end of time] put together. The ratio of Gog and Magog to the children of Adam is 10:1.

This does not seem to make sense. Gog and Magog are also children of Adam, [according to some ulama such as al-Alusi, Wahab ibn Munabbih and others], descendents of Japheth, a son of Noah [Yafith bin Nuh, This piece of information can be found in the Torah].Therefore, since Gog and Magog ARE part of 'children of Adam', how can they be MORE than the children of Adam?

What if, as I hinted in my web-page by ---(followers of)--- , that "bani Adam" is those people who follow prophet Adam and believe like he and other prophets did? That they are true offspring and nation, followers of Adam? How about that kind of metaphor? Then people of China under Mongol-rule were much bigger than amount of Jews, Christians and Muslims untill that time.

Salaam.

maggibs

23rd May 2006, 13:34

The Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj

During the reign of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) people will live an extremely peaceful life filled with prosperity and abundance. Then the wall which imprisons Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj will break and they will surge forth in large numbers.

"But when Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj are let loose and they rush headlong down every hill" (Quran 21:97)

Who are the Ya'jooj and Majooj?

Zul Qarnain (A.S.) (Alexander the Great) who was a pious and just Ruler travelled to many lands and conquered them, establishing justice and the Law of Allah therein. Allah Ta'ala provided him with all forms and material strength through which he was able to carry out his conquests and missions.

He once carried out a mission in three directions, the far west, the far east, and then in a northerly direction. It was here that he came across a tribe of people who complained to him about the tribes of Ya'jooj and Majooj which inhabited the land behind two huge mountains and often emerged from behind these mountains to perpetrate acts of anarchy and plunder among them. They requested Zul Qarnain (A.S.) to erect a barrier between themselves and the tribes of Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj so that they could be saved from their atrocities. With the material strength at his disposal, Zul Qarnain (A.S.) enlisted their physical labor and set about erecting a high wall between the two mountains. The height of the wall or its exact length is unknown. What is known is that the height of this wall reaches that of the summit of both mountains. It is made with blocks or sheets of iron, which is further strengthened by molten lead. In this manner Ya'jooj and Majooj are unable to scale the wall, or cross it, except when it is the will of Allah.

"And when the promise of my Rabb approaces, He will level it to dust" (Quran 18:98)

They are situated in a land of ice which is hidden from our gazes and the exact location of which is unknown. Though many interpretations do exist in this respect, none of these can be said to absolute.

Ya'jooj and Majooj are human beings and according to a narration they are from the progeny of Yafith ibn Nooh (A.S.).

Some Ahadith...

In a lengthy hadith by Hadhrat Nawwas ibn Sam'aan (R.A.) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said:

"...Allah will send revelation upon Isa (A.S.) that 'Such a creation of mine is now going to emerge that no power will be able to stop them. Therefore take my servants and ascend the Mount of Toor.' Then Ya'jooj and Majooj will emerge and surge forth in all their fury. When those from among them who constitute the former part of their army pass the lake of Tiberias (which is in northern Palestine), they will drink up all the water of that lake and by the time those that constitute the latter part of that same army pass the lake, they will say, "There used to be water here (long ago). When they reach the Mount of Khamr in Jerusalem, they will arrogantly proclaim: 'We have conquered the people of the earth, now we will annihilate those in the sky.' So saying they will fire their arrows towards the sky. When the arrows return to the ground they will be blood stained.

In the meantime, Isa (A.S.) will be on the Mount of Toor with his followers. At that time the head of and ox will be as valuable as is a hundred dinars to you in this day. [This indicates the scarcity of provisions]. Faced with these hardships, Isa (A.S.) and his followers will make dua unto Allah (to remove this calamity). As a result, Allah will cause sores to appear on the necks of each and every individual of these people which will cause their death suddenly. When Isa (A.S.) and his followers descend from the Mount of Toor there will not be a single space on the land where the dead rotting bodies of these people is not littered, giving off a horrendous odour. Isa (A.S.) and his followers will once more supplicate unto Allah as a result of which Allah will send down huge birds whose necks will be as thick as that of the necks of camels, and they will dump these bodies in a place where Allah wills. (According to a narration by Tirmidhi, they will be dumped at a place called Nahbal).

Allah Ta'ala will then send down a heavy rain, the waters of which will flow in every part of the earth cleansing it thoroughly. It will rain for a period of forty days.

The Muslims will then burn the bows and arrows of the Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj for a period of seven years.

Allah will order the earth to yield forth its crops in abundance and there will be such blessing and prosperity that one pomegranate will be sufficient for a whole group while the peel thereof will suffice to cast a shadow over them. The milk of one camel will be sufficient for many groups while one milk giving cow will be sufficient for a whole tribe. One milk giving goat will be sufficent for a whole family..."

(Muslim)

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri (R.A.) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said:

"On the day of Qiyamah Allah will say to Adam (A.S.) to pick out the Jahannamis from his entire progeny. Adam (A.S.) will ask: 'O Rabb, who are they?'

Allah will say: 'Nine hundred and ninety nine of a thousand are Jahannami while the one is a Jannati.'

On hearing this the Sahaba were overtaken by fear and they asked "O Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam), who will that one Janniti be?'

Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: 'Do not grieve, the nine hundred and ninety nine will be Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj while you will be the Jannati."' (i.e. your numbers in relation to them will be one in a thousand).

(Bukhari and Muslim)

Hadhrat Abdullah ibn Umar (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said:

"Allah Ta'ala divided mankind into ten parts. Nine tenths constitute Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj while the remaining tenths constitutues the rest of mankind."

Hadhrat Zainab bint Jahsh (R.A.) says: "...once Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) awoke from such a sleep that his face was red and these words were on his tongue: 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah. Destruction is upon the Arabs on account of the evil which has come close to them. Today a hole as big as this has opened up in the wall of Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj.' ..and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) indicated the size of the hole forming a ring with his index finger and thumb."

(Bukhari and Muslim)

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (R.A.) narrates that every day Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj break (dig) through the wall erected by Zul Qarnain (A.S.) until they reach the end of it to that extent that they can actually see the light on the other side. They then return (home) saying that 'We will break through tomorrow.' But Allah Ta'ala causes the wall to revert to its original thickness and the next day they start digging through the wall all over again, and this process continues each day until as long as Allah wills them to remain imprisoned. When Allah wishes them to be released, then at the end of the day they will say, "If Allah wills, tomorrow we will break through." The following day they will find the wall as they had left it the previous day (i.e. it will not have returned to its orginal state) and after breaking the remaining part of it they will emerge."

(Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

Commenting on the above hadith, Allamah Ibn Arabi says, Three miracles are evident in this Hadith:

1.) It never occurs to these tribes that they must continue work during the night. After all, they are in such large numbers that they can easily delegate the work among themselves and work in shifts. But Allah does not allow this thought to occur to them.

2.) It never occurs to them that they can merely cross the mountains or scale the wall, which they can do through the aid of equipment and implements wich they possess in large numbers. According to a narration by Wahab ibn Munabbah it is known that these tribes are agriculturists and artisians possessing various types of equipment.

3.) The thought of saying "If Allah wills" never enters their minds and it will only occur to them to say it when Allah wills that they be released.

United Muslims

30th December 2008, 05:50

Brothers and sisters lets go back through history and see where Gog n Magog have said Inshallah first we have to understand that Gog n Magog were realesed during the lifetime of the prophet (saw) through a dream (Go do your research if u are all interested ill refer all who want to understand this subject to (www.imranhosein.org) now if u go back to the crusades era when the knights templars were trying to Attack the Muslims each time they would say something they would say God Willing which means Inshallah anyway go do the search the Holy Quran explains all things its all there

muslimpk

8th February 2009, 22:45

Yes brother, Obviously USA, Isreal and its western allies are Gog and Mgog. You can vsisit and download an excellent book on Gog and Magog from below site free. All sources in the book are authentic.

book name is ''An Islamic View of Gog and Magog in the Modern Age"

http://imranhosein.org/books/

Asalam Aalaikum

As far as Yajooj and Majooj are concerned, their are some narratives of hadiths which mention about their arrival before the Day of Judgement and some signs about them are clearly mentioned in the sources in advance so that we could recognize them if we get a chance to view them.

One of the signs about them is that when they will appear ,they will fire arrows in the sky and the arrows will return with blood on them.

According to the interpretation of Some of the Muslim Scholars , Yajooj and Majooj have already appeared in the form of USA and Isreal and they interpret the firing of arrows in the sky as the missiles and bombs which USA and Isreal have developed in great number and we can see that USA is attacking Muslim Countries with heavy hands and is using its weapons against Iraq.

In Afghanistan, USA used its missile technology against Taliban and missiles backward form could be arrows which were used during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) since their was no missile technology during that time.

I would appreciate if my brothers present their views on this subject.

Waiting for reply

Regards,

muslimpk

8th February 2009, 23:28

Historical evidence prove that Zionist Israelis belong to Khazars who lived between the Black and Caspian Seas, the place which is mentioned in the Prophet SAW hadith. For details see

http://imranhosein.org/books
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

intresting read
as for this

juj and majuj is not usa and israel even though they fit the description of ruthlessness.

from the sons of Japeth the son of Nuh alaihi salam, and I think both of them were from Japeth.
The decsendence of Japeth sence they settled in northern khurasan throughtout the east happen to be the tartaric races. From them are the originals who are the mongols, then the tartar turk, other turk tribes, and all of the asiatic peoples or China, Southeast Asia, Korea, and Japan.
But as for the chinese, Japanese, and the southeasternasians then they have been mixed with the indians of from the decsendants other than Japeth.

But the original tribes of Japeth were of Mongol and turk blood since these two were the main tribes of Japeth.

Im not racist in the least and very against it and ISlam is also against it since the prophet described qawmiyyah (tribalism or nationalism) to be like the dung bettle meaning that the muslim who is infected with tribalism, racism is like the dung bettle and has adopted the practices of jaahiliyyah (preislamic ignorance).

But at the same time the prophet narrated to us that he does not marry women from the tribe of " " (I forget which tribe) because the women are to jealous". So this shows that at the same time different races or ethnic groups can be categorized through their ways (and not for the propagation of racism and hatred) but for distinction.

So in this realm only we know that even from history the mongols were a very barbaric type of people and even today many that have not lived in the world as the way we do have these tendencies as well in their country.

Im not saying that they are the Mongols or any specific race but they are from a tribe that are directly related to them and you see these very characteristics in them. Even the Manchurian of China. In Chinese history these were a very ruthless, intolerable, barbaric people who took over chinese territory from time to time, and the manchurians are related to the Mongols.

Again these are all theoretical and not absolute truth but the evidence i brought I beleive has some weight to it and Allah knows best.

as the people juj and majuj themselves then they are not in a place that any man knows. The are hidden an their numbers are many and the reports from the hadeeth state that they number more than the whole population of mankind all the way to the begining. So if you were to add up all the men from the time of Adam to now (including the dead) then their numbers are still greater.

They are a real people, a race.

another intresting point is that the areas of Uzbekistan, Khasastan, and just west of mongolia are land that are very rigid and wheere there is very minimal amounst of civilization due to its climate.there is plenty of land their plenty for a whole race of this kind to be somewhere in there. There are vast areas of regions were man that we know now has not even gone by foot due to the terrain after years . and since Dhul-Qarnan

What sparked my sences to the pointed of chills was this

This can be the truthand Allah knows best. I dont see and Allah knows best how this would go against the hadeeth because even if a few who did find an escape then that doesn mean the whole race since what is mentioned in the hadeeth is that the "tribes". So if one or two or 100 of them escaped then they do not represent the tribe but only a fraction. example tampa or seattle is not considered the nation of america but the mainland 48 states could be considered the whole tribe of america (not saying that america is one tribe but using it as an example) this also strengthens what first said as well but is not absolute since Allah and His messenger know best.

muslimpk

8th February 2009, 23:31

Read "An Islamic View of Gog and Magog in the Modern Age" at http://imranhosein.org/books

i still dont get it though if the gog and magog are any of them mentioned countries then wat about the wall built by zul qurnain

bsd

6th January 2012, 02:40

Peace mule,

Please can you explain how your above post refers to Gog and Magog?

I agree that both tribes most likely descend from two of Noah(A)'s sons and are probably related to the tartaric races.
I also agree with the hadith that they will come out from the barrier in the east(somewhere in central asia) to attack all on Earth whilst reaking havoc and causing much chaos. :)

Many thanks and Peace.

greetings! I think you might be interested in some of the lectures on a site called Koinonia. Dr Chuck Missler is really interesting talking on this. Go to Strategic Perspectives and you can download lots of lectures. Fascinating stuff.

bsd

6th January 2012, 02:48

If you are interested in finding out what the Bible has to say abot all of this an the end times etc then I would like to recommend the lectures on a site called Koinonia Institute. Look for Strategic Perspectives at the top of the page and you can then download lots of great lectures. Also look for anything by Dr Chuck Missler. Also listen to Samy Tanagho google him if necessary. We must all be vigilant if we believe we are in the end times. And really study the scriptures. They are the Word of God. Let them speak. It's a pity that many Muslims do not read the Old Testament and study it.

Clarity

31st January 2012, 03:13

The Quran makes a note of Dhul Qarnayn arriving to a place where the sun set -- and it made me wonder why the Quran would give this information.

What do you think of the following?

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho

Jericho is a city located near the Jordan River in the West Bank of the Palestinian territories. It is the capital of the Jericho Governorate and has a population of more than 20,000.[2] Situated well below sea level on an east-west route 16 kilometres (10 mi) north of the Dead Sea, Jericho is the lowest permanently inhabited site on earth. It is also believed to be the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world.[3][4][5]

Described in the Old Testament as the "City of Palm Trees", copious springs in and around Jericho have made it an attractive site for human habitation for thousands of years.[6] It is known in Judeo-Christian tradition as the place of the Israelites' return from bondage in Egypt, led by Joshua, the successor to Moses. Archaeologists have unearthed the remains of more than 20 successive settlements in Jericho, the first of which dates back 11,000 years (9000 BCE),[7] almost to the very beginning of the Holocene epoch of the Earth's history.

Search for 'wall' in that link.. or walls of jericho on google... I am not claiming one way or the other.. it's mostly speculative on my part at the moment. If anyone could clarify.. either telling me i'm totally off the mark or i might be onto something that would be cool.

abdul ash

25th February 2012, 07:17

Peace mule,

Please can you explain how your above post refers to Gog and Magog?

I agree that both tribes most likely descend from two of Noah(A)'s sons and are probably related to the tartaric races.
I also agree with the hadith that they will come out from the barrier in the east(somewhere in central asia) to attack all on Earth whilst reaking havoc and causing much chaos. :)

Many thanks and Peace.

Salam to all my brother and sisters in islam
gog and magog are seald under the earth or in a mountian
and dear brother you cant say about a hadith sahay that i agree or desagree we just take as it is

Akilamar

3rd December 2012, 23:04

Hello first about the word gog and magog word gog comes from the word demagog the faumos demagog who made and pellasgo illirians king Pirro the famous demagog or gog known as gaius flaminous and made Pirro join the war to save rome or as you know them today gipsys from carthagena king wich was the hannibal, hannibal had a son names magog, so basiclly every thing that is written already hapenn no one can predict the future or what will hapenn and for this what i'm about to say i'm sorry but ever since that famous demagog flaminous made two same blood tribes fight each other this world never saw a light any more because the started something that even in this days is going on so basiclly we are in hell because gaius flaminous started the flames that never stoped and every holy book that is written is not more then some kind of a twisted truth something that people wait to hapenn when it already hapenn so brothers and sisters christian muslim jewish orthodox budist pagane what ever the religion you have we have been foled to belive that god wrotte those books they where written from gipsys thats why they live and never work a single day they feed for free and have every thing for free because we pitty them basiclly they are the masters we all are the slaves there is only one way to describe this, this is hell my brothers and sisters love you all and stop fighting and killing each other over something that passed the future is what is important and a future bright with no time to end because time has stoped when killing started for greede we have to start it again so we need to stop killing each other and what is important not to mix the race conflicts rise from that and we lose all the beautifull races that we have and in the name of ever waiting death of all we will the only god that we have earth brothers and sisters natyre we don't care about it thinking or saying we, will die any way, and i know most of the people wish for end of time to come, for me that is crazy i hope i never see people kill each other in world war's or my kid's or my kid's, kid's etc.. i have just one thing to say some one know's this is paradice and some one knows this is hell so what do you chose to belive is your choice bu i know that karma functions i don't know tho are we to blame for this i just said gipsys but that does not mean im right meaning i don't want now to go and kill them and sort thing out but to make them work for their food that's the point work their *** off like we do working woman and men or our GOD EARTH qao sorry if i ofend some one this is my logical opinian about these thing's you will find nothing is you relie in only holy book's they are holow twisted reality...

Abdulmojib

13th May 2013, 19:00

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I as a mulsim agree that gog and magog are both decendents from noah's family, however, Japeth, as it seems, was not a monster. So if they are decendents, they must look like humans. I think that they are just very evil humans who locked by a barrier by a king called dhul karnain. They are going to come out somewhere in time and make a huge war. This will happen at the time jesus will be in the earth.
Others say that gog and magog allready came out in the past and they have said that they were the mongols. I do not believe this as Jesus was not there.
Some people releate the war of gog and magog to the beattle of Armmagedon. This might be a bit convincing because the gog and magog tribes just happen to be zionist jews who are extremely poerfull .
THEY WILL BE DEFEATED.
I believe that they're coming will only be in something like 20 years time as some of the signs that lead to the end of the world are happening.

Abdulmojib

13th May 2013, 19:05

If they were written by gypsy's then how come they have been written by some very strong literiture and nobody will choose to comeup with different storys like in the bible, it says that mgog is a country and in the quran gog and mgog are evil tribes......the holy books are not twisted reality

Abdulmojib

13th May 2013, 19:10

are you sure about that. Peace brother, the islamic religion is the mother of Christianity and Jewdaism. I am not trying to start an argument here. Islamic people are no terrorists. The job of a Muslim is to help the humanity and there is a time you are sure to see that. And when i say help, i mean protect and warn humanity if you desive the true words of God.
Peace be with you. brother.