View Full Version : Sudan
9th July 2004, 03:46
as i'm sure that most of us are aware, there is a terrible humanitarian crisis in the Sudan as we read this post.
the situation is one of the worst that human history has had the sorry misfortune of witnessing and i hope that the international community will respond in a timely fashion to help the villagers that are being persectued.
the Islamic government of Sudan has yet to prevent the Arab militas from attacking the villages of the Black African Sudanese. often, the militias are attacking with support equipment from the government.
there are several topcial issues that this brings to the fore.
#1. how can a government that purports to have any type of religious affiliation, commit such atrocities or permit such atrocities to be committed?
from my point of view, there is no justification that can be given to defend their actions and their inaction in preventing the wholesale genocide.
#2. what response should the international community make to the crisis? specifically, which nations have an obligation to step in and mediate the situation, if any at all?
#3. given the racial animosity that exists between African Blacks and Arabs in Africa, is there any hope for peace between these two groups?
"The 15-month long conflict in Sudan's western province of Darfur has produced what the United Nations is calling "the worst humanitarian crisis in the world".
"A pro-government Arab militia, known as the Janjaweed, is accused of carrying out a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the black African population there. Hilary Andersson has been to one of the Darfur refugee camps."
"“There can be no doubt about the Sudanese government’s culpability in crimes against humanity in Darfur,” said Peter Takirambudde, executive director of the Africa Division of Human Rights Watch. “The U.N. Security Council must not ignore the brutal facts.”
"It has become clear that the enslavement of black Africans did not stop with the demise of the Atlantic Slave Trade. That on this very day and hour, as you read this, black Africans are bought and sold in two North African countries. In the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, black Africans continue to be enslaved by their Arab-Berber masters. Although slavery was declared abolished three times since Mauritania's independence in 1960, it persists. Slaves are given as wedding gifts, traded for camels, guns or trucks, and inherited. The children of slaves belong to the master and slaves who displease their masters or attempt escapes are tortured in the most brutal manner imaginable.
In Sudan, Africa's largest country, the Islamic Republic of the Sudan, as a result of an Islamic-vs.-Christian civil war, black women and children (mostly Christian) are captured in raids on their villages and sold as chattel slaves, sometimes, according to the UN in "modern-day slave markets."
9th July 2004, 04:24
Peace be with you Vajradhara
The ongoing crisis in the Sudan is indeed a human trajedy. I have to admit that my knowledge of this particular situation is woefully limited,informed as I am by corporate newspapers and other media in Canada that take little interest in trajedies taking place in the "Thirld World"(a euphism I've come to despise)
I'm going to take a bit of time and study this matter with the attention it deserves..... and I'll admit that I'm humbled that a buddhist would open this topic on a matter of specific importance to muslims (though it is a generally a 'human' concern). So thanks for reiminding me to take a closer look, it's been in the back of my mind for weeks.
I don't want to venture an answer to question #2 and 3 in your post yet until I have something of intelligence to add to this thread, however I can take a stab at your first.
Let me suggest that in matters of political import religous affiliation ceases ,(for the most part) to be taken seriously by it's supposed adherents. With few exceptions in history we find that matters of geopoltical importance are often decided by men(and women) with aims at cosolidating some real or imagined power and or authority to be weilded over the 'masses'. This might strike you as odd coming from a man who belives a state 'should' be informed by knowledge of God and His commandements in a limited and general sense. It's seems clear to me though, that when we read about such and such a massacre done in the name of such and such a religion we have to be critical and try to understand the extent to which the teachings of the religion in question is accuratley represented by those who 'claim'to uphold it.
Without even being all that familiar with the situation in Sudan, I can say unequivocally that if the 'Islamic' state of Sudan is persecuting a group of minorities (or in this case, slaughtering them) they have fallen outside the clear boundaries set by Allah(swt) and revealed by his prophet(pbuh). It really is that simple. Although I tend to dislike generalizations and black and white statements.
On the whole I find analyses of world issues on the basis of religion to be flawed. I'm referring to arguments that some use to reduce complicated global issues to one variable ie. 'religion' and proceeding from there to assess the situation. This is because the world itself is complex and does not, in my estimation, lend itself to this sort of analysis. Post-colonialism,propped up regimes,debt,global economy....the list goes on, there are just so many factors that influence the onset of conflict and strife that it would be blithe and disingenous to find religion to be of primary significance. Infact, we know that psychologically people tend to rely on the traditions they have inherited(and here I am reffering to the 'group' or 'tribe' mentality that invariably surfaces in conflicts over land and resources) in order to give significance and more importantly liscence to their actions. So in this sense religion(or more accuratley 'inherited understandings' for most poor people do not have an educated understanding of their religion but a superstitious and tribal one) can be seen as playing some small psychological role (in general) and not this prime importance with which it is often imbued by commentators.
The state in this case that purports itself to be "Islamic" would be responsible for descalating the situation(if it was not innitially started by it) and if it indeed is responsible for this trajedy should divest itself of it'd illusions of 'Islamic"-ness.
Anyways brother, I would like to come back to this thread once i inform myself, I'll probably post again tommorow.
I am most impressed that you are aware of what is going on in Sudan. I have heard some things about that region as well. What I have heard is that they are hunting down christians over there. But I hear this from Christian sources and I have found that it's good to back myself up.
9th July 2004, 19:45
For all crimes there are assuredly motives albeit morally relativistic.
What is the answer? reverse engineering!
Edited by - Hasan on 07/09/2004 13:28:00
9th July 2004, 20:07
Adverbatim from CIA Fact book (Public Domain) refer to source below
Imports - commodities
United States crude oil and refined petroleum products, machinery, automobiles, consumer goods, industrial raw materials, food and beverages
Libya machinery, transport equipment, food, manufactured goods (1999)
Afghanistan capital goods, food, textiles, petroleum products
Iraq food, medicine, manufactures
Iran industrial raw materials and intermediate goods, capital goods, foodstuffs and other consumer goods, technical services, military supplies
Syria machinery and transport equipment, electric power machinery, food and livestock, metal and metal products, chemicals and chemical products, plastics, yarn, paper
Israel raw materials, military equipment, investment goods, rough diamonds, fuels, grain, consumer goods
West Bank food, consumer goods, construction materials
Sudan foodstuffs, manufactured goods, refinery and transport equipment, medicines and chemicals, textiles, wheat
Korea, North petroleum, coking coal, machinery and equipment; textiles, grain
Exports - commodities
United States capital goods, automobiles, industrial supplies and raw materials, consumer goods, agricultural products
Libya crude oil, refined petroleum products (1999)
Afghanistan opium, fruits and nuts, handwoven carpets, wool, cotton, hides and pelts, precious and semi-precious gems
Iraq crude oil
Iran petroleum 80%, chemical and petrochemical products, fruits and nuts, carpets
Syria crude oil, petroleum products, fruits and vegetables, cotton fiber, clothing, meat and live animals, wheat
Israel machinery and equipment, software, cut diamonds, agricultural products, chemicals, textiles and apparel
West Bank olives, fruit, vegetables, limestone
Sudan oil and petroleum products; cotton, sesame, livestock, groundnuts, gum arabic, sugar
Korea, North minerals, metallurgical products, manufactures (including armaments); textiles and fishery products
Globally, the 20th century was marked by: (a) two devastating world wars; (b) the Great Depression of the 1930s; (c) the end of vast colonial empires; (d) rapid advances in science and technology, from the first airplane flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina (US) to the landing on the moon; (e) the Cold War between the Western alliance and the Warsaw Pact nations; (f) a sharp rise in living standards in North America, Europe, and Japan; (g) increased concerns about the environment, including loss of forests, shortages of energy and water, the decline in biological diversity, and air pollution; (h) the onset of the AIDS epidemic; and (i) the ultimate emergence of the US as the only world superpower. The planet's population continues to explode: from 1 billion in 1820, to 2 billion in 1930, 3 billion in 1960, 4 billion in 1974, 5 billion in 1988, and 6 billion in 2000. For the 21st century, the continued exponential growth in science and technology raises both hopes (e.g., advances in medicine) and fears (e.g., development of even more lethal weapons of war).
Disputes - international: World
"...borderland/resource, and territorial disputes vary in intensity from managed or dormant to violent or militarized; most disputes over the alignment of political boundaries are confined to short segments and are today less common and less hostile than borderland, resource, and territorial disputes; undemarcated, indefinite, porous, and unmanaged boundaries, however, encourage illegal cross-border activities, uncontrolled migration, and confrontation; territorial disputes may evolve from historical and/or cultural claims, or they may be brought on by resource competition; ethnic clashes continue to be responsible for much of the territorial fragmentation around the world; disputes over islands at sea or in rivers frequently form the source of territorial and boundary conflict; other sources of contention include access to water and mineral (especially petroleum) resources, fisheries, and arable land; nonetheless, most nations cooperate to clarify their international boundaries and to resolve territorial and resource disputes peacefully; regional discord directly affects the sustenance and welfare of local populations, often leaving the world community to cope with resultant refugees, hunger, disease, impoverishment, deforestation, and desertification .."
cocaine: worldwide, coca is grown on an estimated 205,450 hectares - almost exclusively in South America with 70% in Colombia; potential cocaine production during 2002 is estimated at 938 metric tons (or 1,200 metric tons of export quality cocaine at an average of 78% purity); coca eradication programs continue in Bolivia, Colombia, and Peru, and 292 metric tons of export quality cocaine are documented to have been seized in 2002; consumption of export quality cocaine is estimated to have been 875 metric tons
opiates: cultivation of opium poppy occurred on an estimated 141,213 hectares in 2002 and potentially produced 2,183 metric tons of opium - which conceivably could be converted to the equivalent of 238 metric tons of pure heroin; opium eradication programs have been undertaken in Afghanistan, Burma, Colombia, Mexico, Pakistan, Thailand, and Vietnam, and the annual average for opiates seized worldwide over the past five years (1998-2002) has been 45 metric tons of pure heroin equivalent; estimates for average annual consumption over this time period are 315 metric tons pure heroin equivalent
Military regimes favoring Islamic-oriented governments have dominated national politics since independence from the UK in 1956. Sudan has been embroiled in a civil war for all but 10 years of this period (1972-82). The wars are rooted in northern economic, political, and social domination of non-Muslim, non-Arab southern Sudanese. Since 1983, the war and war- and famine-related effects have led to more than 2 million deaths and over 4 million people displaced. The ruling regime is a mixture of military elite and an Islamist party that came to power in a 1989 coup. Some northern opposition parties have made common cause with the southern rebels and entered the war as a part of an anti-government alliance. Peace talks gained momentum in 2002-03 with the signing of several accords, including a cease-fire agreement.
Disputes - international:Sudan
the north-south civil war has affected Sudan's neighbors by drawing them into the fighting and by forcing them to provide shelter to refugees, to contend with infiltration by rebel groups, and to serve as mediators; Sudan has provided shelter to Ugandan refugees and cover to Lord's Resistance Army soldiers; Sudan accuses Eritrea of supporting Sudanese rebel groups; efforts to demarcate the porous boundary with Ethiopia have been delayed by fighting in Sudan; Kenya's administrative boundary still extends into the Sudan, creating the "Ilemi triangle"; Egypt and Sudan retain claims to administer the triangular areas that extend north and south of the 1899 Treaty boundary along the 22nd Parallel, but have withdrawn their military presence; Egypt is economically developing and currently effectively administers the "Hala'ib triangle" north of the Treaty Line; Sudan has pledged to work with the Central African Republic to stem violent skirmishes over water and grazing among related pastoral populations along the border
And also refer to: http://www.wto.org/ & http://www.gatt.org/
9th July 2004, 23:11
thank you for the replies.
i'm not singling out an "Islamic" government.. it just happens to be the case here. and.. quite frankly, given what i know of Islam, which i admit is scarce, thier actions seem to be in direct opposition to what i've learned of your religion.
i think that you are right on when you say that religon, in this case, is simply a tool for consolodating power for individuals with a political agenda. it always makes me cringe when things like this are perpetrated and even loosly associated with a religious tradition.
there are plenty of people in the world that think that all religious adherents are foolish. when i see things like this.. i'm inclined to agree.. even though that indicts me as well.
i also agree that using one paradigm, such as religion, for instance, to view the world is likely to be fraught with peril and not very useful for inter-cultural dialog. whether we like it not, our world is very small now... we can talk to people from around the world in real time! people can move from country to country and continent to continent in less than a day! this is really, really a marvelous thing, in my view.
of course, this will bring cultures into contact with views and positions that will be quite contradictory and often, difficult to reconcile within the local culture. as difficult as these things can be, we are called, as religious adherents, to be the ambassadors to our neighbors. to help people integrate into a new culture and learn whilst preserving their unique cultural heritage. in my opinion.
as you've probably seen, though my particular cause is the Tibtean/Chinese situation, i cannot possibly consider myself to be a Buddhist without trying to help all beings. thus, i consider all of these types of things to be something that we should comment on and bring to the attention of our fellow human beings. for all i know, a leader of an African nation can read this forum and react with outrage at what's going on and will vow to stop it.
it's true that initially, there was a lot of attacks against the Christians and the Animists in the south, however, a truce has been signed between the the fighting factions. now, everything has moved to Dafur, an area about the size of France. here, it seems to be nothing more than racially motivated genocide.. hiding behind the veneer of religion... which, and i hope i'm not out of bounds here, disgusts me.
however... even simply focusing on the civilians and the people that really are suffering.. it's difficult to simply say "this is the reason" or "that is the reason".
as a Buddhist, i believe that each person is responsible for their own actions and they will reap the consequences thereof. in a certain sense, i have as much compassion for the people engaging in this genocidal campaign as for the victims.
14th July 2004, 05:46
more saddening news...
BAHAI, Chad (AP) - Along Chad's border with Sudan, tens of thousands of villagers have slaughtered their last sheep, shared their last water and given up their own clothes to help the more than 1 million Sudanese refugees driven from their homes by fighting in Darfur. U.N. officials estimate some 100,000 Chad villagers are in as desperate need of food, water and help as the refugees.
Soundaiye Younous beat out her frustration on the laundry she was trying to scrub in a muddy puddle. The sun was not yet high in the sky when she got to the well, but already it was dry.
"Before there was lots of water," the 15-year-old Chadian said. "But since the refugees came, there isn't enough."
When the first Sudanese straggled across a dried-up river bed into Chad, residents of this remote desert town opened their homes, their pastures and their wells to them.
Six months later, refugees outnumber residents three to one and the strain shows. Food prices have skyrocketed, animal fodder is running out and fights break out regularly at wells that still function.
Fatime Ousman turned up on Mariama Souleiman's doorstep one morning in tears. She said Arab militiamen, known as the Janjaweed, had killed her husband, leaving her to care for their four children along with the six offspring of her dead brother and sister-in-law. All 11 were living under a thorn tree on the outskirts of Bahai, a border town.
"My sister-in-law was bombed by an Antonov airplane. My brother tried to run, but the Janjaweed caught him and cut him to pieces before our eyes," Ousman recounted. "When my husband heard they were killed, he went back to try and save the cattle. The Janjaweed caught him and shot him."
The children are now so afraid the bombers will return, they cry at the sight of a bird, she said.
Souleiman, who sells candy and soda at the market, gave the family two rooms to live in and food, clothes and blankets.
"We don't have much ourselves, but we couldn't watch people suffer like that," she said. "If you had seen them when they first came, you too would take the clothes off your back to help them."
For 17 months, Arab raiders on horses and camels, backed by Sudanese airplanes and helicopter gunships, have razed hundreds of villages in Darfur in attacks described by human rights groups as ethnic cleansing. Up to 30,000 people have been killed, the United Nations estimates.
The Janjaweed - the word means "horsemen" in the local dialect - have followed the more than 200,000 refugees into Chad, attacking the refugees and their hosts and reportedly killing hundreds and stealing thousands of cattle, say Chadian officials.
16th July 2004, 05:50
I wonder if you feel that what has happened to this country is wrong? Is the slave trade evil? Genocide evil?
16th July 2004, 23:35
thank you for the post.
by "this country" do you mean America?
if so, then yes, i'm as offended by what happened in that country as anywhere else. it's a crime against humanity, in my view, with the nearly total destruction of the Native American culture and civilization.
slavery is morally reprehensible and ethically condemned not to mention genocide.
i'm a bit reluctant to call things "evil" or "good" as those terms seem to be a bit nebeulous in most cases. though, if there are areas where these can be applied, slavery and genocide would be those areas.
17th July 2004, 02:43
by "this country" do you mean America?
if so, then yes, i'm as offended by what happened in that country as anywhere else. it's a crime against humanity, in my view, with the nearly total destruction of the Native American culture and civilization.
By "this country" I was talking about Sudan. But America is fine as well.
How do you *know* that it was a crime against humanity?
slavery is morally reprehensible and ethically condemned not to mention genocide
Why is slavery morally reprehensible and ethically condemned?
Why do you think poorly of genocide?
I haven't a clue what *nebeulous* means. You are very well educated.
18th July 2004, 02:38
I don't remember who wrote it, but here is a good article:
The remarkable growth of Islam in Europe and America, where it is now the second- or third-largest religion, has raised fears about whether Muslims can be loyal citizens and even whether they will bring "fundamentalist" violence to the West. The World Trade Center bombing as well as bombings in Paris and France help to feed such fears. France has insisted on integration, not multiculturalism. Muslims have experienced levels of discrimination in society and the media in Europe and America that would simply not be tolerated by Christians and Jews.
Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, is a religion that provides a framework of faith and meaning that has transformed lives and societies. At the same time, again like Judaism and Christianity, it has been used or abused to justify violence and oppression. We can speak equally about militant Judaism and Christianity as we can about militant Islam. Part of our problem of interpretation is that when a Jewish extremist murdered Muslims at prayer in the Hebron mosque or assassinated Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin, or when Christian extremists, calling themselves the army of God, blew up an abortion clinic, we reflexively distinguished between the mainstream faith of Jews and Christians and the twisted use of religion by fanatics. Making an equivalent distinction with regard to Islam does not regularly occur. Similarly, while some do not object to the mixing of religion and politics in Israel, Eastern Europe, or Latin America (liberation theology), they will do so in a blanket way when it comes to Islam.
As Jews faced the challenges of preserving a sense of identity, community, and faith within an American society dominated by Christian culture and values, Muslims today as a religious minority face a similar challenge within a Judaeo-Christian or secular America. Real understanding can begin when we, the majority, come to realize that, despite our differences, there is a common Judaeo-Christian-Islamic heritage shared by all the children of Abraham, and that Islam is not a "foreign" or Middle Eastern religion any more than Judaism and Christianity. The Muslim presence in America spans centuries, not decades, and with a population of at least from 4 to 6 million, Muslims are indeed "us." The failures of our educational system to make us aware of these facts and our media's presentation of present Islam and Muslims only through "headline events" have distorted or obscured these realities.
19th July 2004, 01:59
I should have have just came out and said that I don't believe that anyone would be able to judge what was moral without God. The compassion you have for Sudan and other oppressed people is to me large proof that there is a God. Which has nothing to do with Sudan. Sorry.
I saw the pictures of what's happening on Tv and it makes me feel sick. Hard to have to watch such suffering and know you can't help.
Edited by - mule on 07/18/2004 19:06:51
20th July 2004, 02:08
thank you for the post.
how do i know that killing all but 12 members of a Tribe of Native Americans is a crime against humanity? well... other than the fact that murder is a crime and all of that... when a great many people of one specific race are killed, we call this genocide. genocidal events are crimes that affront the entire spectrum of humanity, thus, they are crimes against humanity.
this is the same in Sudan, Thailand, or America.
why is slavery wrong? are you serious? come man, even the Christian tradition finally did away with this institution.
oh.. wait.. i see where you are going... since i don't have God, how do i know that something is morally wrong or ethically reprehensible?
this presumes that God is the source of morality and ethics which, as demonstrated, is not the case.
Adj. 1. nebulous - lacking definite form or limits; Synonyms: cloudy, nebulose
2. nebulous - lacking definition or definite content; Synonyms: unfixed
don't worry, Mule, i knew where you were coming from.. it's a very common attitude that i encounter. no matter...
to my way of thinking... your reaction to the suffering and torture is confirmation of the Truth of Dharma.
20th July 2004, 04:21
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) - Sudanese Arab militiamen rape women and girls as young as eight in the violent campaign intended to hurt, humiliate and drive out black Africans from the troubled region of Darfur, a human rights organization said Monday.
The Sudanese Janjaweed Arab militiamen sometimes torture and break limbs of women to prevent them from escaping rape, abductions and sexual slavery, Amnesty International said in the report titled: "Sudan, Rape as a weapon of war in Darfur."
Thousands have been killed and more than a million black Africans have fled their homes in the face of attacks by the government-backed Arab militiamen known as Janjaweed, or "horsemen" in the local dialect.
The Janjaweed "are happy when they rape. They sing when they rape and they tell that we are just slaves and that they can do with us how they wish," a 37-year-old victim, identified only as A., says in the report.
Sudan on Saturday ordered that committees of women judges, police officers and legal consultants investigate rape accusations and help victims through criminal cases in the Iraq-sized Darfur region.
The Arab militiamen routinely kill black African men in the western region and target women and girls for sexual violence, Amnesty International said, citing hundreds of interviews human rights workers conducted in camps sheltering people who fled the atrocities in Darfur.
"Women and girls are being attacked, not only to dehumanize the women themselves but also to humiliate, punish, control, inflict fear and displace women and to persecute the community to which they belong," the London-based group said.
"In many cases the Janjaweed have raped women in public, in the open air, in front of their husbands, relatives or the wider community," the group said. "The suffering and abuse endured by these women goes far beyond the actual rape ... survivors now face a lifetime of stigma and marginalisation from their own families and communities."
Women in Darfur who have undergone female genital mutilation are at an even greater risk of injury and face higher risks of infection by HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases, the rights group said.
20th July 2004, 07:23
Mmmm, I'm sorry to say this, but there hasn't exactly been an outcry amongst Muslim or Arab or other African governments about this, at least as reported by the BBC. Can anyone enlighten me about coverage elsewhere in the world?
I AM NOT SAYING that this is a Muslim or Arab responsibility by any means, but I would expect them to be distancing themselves vehemently from these actions and hopefully applying some pressure at a regional level. It is a trueism that African governments are reluctant to criticise neighbours, as seen with the less than impressive influence of South Africs upon Mugabe's regime in Zimbabwe.
21st July 2004, 20:31
But of course... there are also other outcries
22nd July 2004, 00:32
i searched througout the site that you linked to and didn't find a single, solitary mention of the situation in Sudan.
can you please link to the article or articles that are on this site that talk about the humanitarian crisis in Sudan?
22nd July 2004, 13:25
Start off with the opinion editorials, it seems to be growing mindset of suspicion amongst the public. Not suprising considering? "Even CNN and BBC Beating drums of a new War, on Sudan This time." this should be on the first pages. Then look into archived news, under Arab League.
22nd July 2004, 23:45
i read the article in the opinoin section...
however... it is a polemic against the west and i'm not concerned with that type of policial rhetoric.
there is a real life humanatarian crisis in the Sudan that we, as citizens of the world, need to speak out against and cause our various governments to speak out against as well.
is it your contention that these crimes are not being committed? that the black africans are lying about what is going on and who is perpetrating the atrocities?
UNITED NATION (AP) - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged Sudan on Wednesday to take immediate action to disarm Arab-backed militias and warned that the international community may step in if it doesn't move quickly.
Annan and his special representative in Khartoum, Jan Pronk, made clear they want a speedy restoration of security in the vast region where a 15-month conflict has killed up to 30,000 people, forced over a million to flee their homes, and left 2.2 million needing food and medicine. But neither set a deadline.
"The urgency is there, and the Sudanese government doesn't have forever," Annan told a news conference after Pronk briefed the U.N. Security Council on Darfur.
The rebels promised Annan in a July 3 agreement that they would crack down on the Janjaweed militia and other outlawed rebel groups, but Pronk said the government has made "no progress whatsoever" in honoring its pledge.
Annan said the Sudanese government should deploy the 6,000 police to Darfur called for in the agreement and protect people, "many of whom are living in sub-human conditions."
Pronk said a body set up with Sudan to monitor implementation of the July 3 accord is sending a joint mission to Darfur for three days early next week to assess what's happening with the Janjaweed, and what's happening with the relocation or return of those who fled the fighting. The mission will include U.N. representatives, government officials and some ambassadors, he said.
The United States is pressing for Security Council action, and Pronk said he wants members to back the agreement and "to give teeth" to the implementation body.
U.S. Ambassador John Danforth said Washington has put the finishing touches on a revised draft resolution, which will be discussed Thursday by council experts. The initial draft called for an arms embargo and travel ban on the Janjaweed and would require the council to decide after 30 days whether these sanctions should be extended.
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell will meet Annan on Thursday to discuss what Danforth called the "monster" that the Sudanese government created. Both have made trips to Sudan to assess the plight of the people in Darfur.
Annan said the Security Council must decide on what to do.
"The international community must insist and hold the government accountable, and hold it responsible for the commitments that it made, and insist they must perform," Annan said. "If they fail to do that, I think the international community cannot sit back.
"They have to take measures. What measures should they take? Should it be sanctions? Should it be sending in a force, and is that force available, and how quickly? These are issues that the council will have to take."
The fighting began when two groups drawn from Darfur's African tribes took up arms over what they regard as unjust treatment by the government in their struggle over land and resources with Arab countrymen.
The Janjaweed began attacking black Africans, and some human rights groups have accused them of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
if the UN Security Council takes action.. can you predict the news from the Arab Muslim world? i can anticipate some of it as evidence in the article that you've referenced. it seems as if the political goals of some are more important than helping innocent victims of a humanatrian crisis that may end up surpassing that of Rwanda!
this is a morally reprehensible position to take, in my view.
24th July 2004, 02:40
"if the UN Security Council takes action.. can you predict the news from the Arab Muslim world? i can anticipate some of it as evidence in the article that you've referenced. it seems as if the political goals of some are more important than helping innocent victims of a humanatrian crisis that may end up surpassing that of Rwanda!
this is a morally reprehensible position to take, in my view."
You are so quick to judge Vajradhara, your post has emphasised the spread of disensitisation from the Media with might. I haven't mentioned the plight of Palestinians held under a draconian regime with it's aspirations of Oligarchy. Yet there was no comment from the link, it was splattered with articles of children being prisoned and the belittleing of international laws. What has it not the value for a concern? Is their a monopoly on rightouesness? or common sense? . Your judgements have no allusion for effort for understanding or compassion, not as a result from ignoring what obviously is splattered, but your lumping of notions from the "anticipation" of rhetoric. "But of course", there is not a consipiracy to regulate the public opinion of a person with a Muslim mind by way moral relativism. If the Public truly aspires a rational approach to "outcries". Then the opinion (1 only) that has been asked to start of with regarding the Sudanese crises of which I hope will not lead to a fiasco, should have been seen as an attempt to pry into "Public Suspicion" . Not Muslim Supicion or Muslim Politics or Muslim Rhetorics". Is there not an uproar with regarding the Iraq War? It seems reasonable given the "Nebulous" nature for such an event. Particularly on the heals of 9/11. Are you aware that Osama has denied any responsibility and is only guilty because of suspicion from his political beliefs and the affiliations. This is well documented. Are you aware that Hamas has denounced 9/11 as a terrorist act and have forwarded their condolansces. This is well documented. Are you aware that Muslim nations have denounced 9/11 as terrorist act. This is well documented. Are you aware that the Budhist statues being blown in Afghanistan was not as result of religious aspirations but of political statement of "stickin it to the Man" in that monies for the restoration had been kindly and repeatedly requested (and repeatedly denied) so as to add to the miserable restoration of Afghanistan from countless years of Mines left behind fromm ravaging wars. Countless of limbs lost by children could have been minimised? Mines that are also near to the Budhist statues! How ironic of Human values where millions of dollars for restoration works sponsored by an outside patronage have ignored the citizens who would have tread with fear around them. This is well Documented. Obviously not, it is difficult to make any attempt for re-evaluation on a basis of a percieved notion. Here let me now take the liberty to itemise in a timeline format for it to be not too cumbersome in finding journalisitic articles linked to the "Arab Muslim World."
Approach it holistically maybe after you read the CIA fact book, seriously this time.
Jan 2003 News Links
Sudan rebels want suspension of talks
Sudan rebels want suspension of talks
Sudanese rebel leader urges government to begin talks
Arabs oppose partition of Sudan
Feb 2003 News Links
New Group Seizes Sudan Town
Sudan foes make headway on power sharing arrangements
News Links, March 2003
News links, April 2003
News links, May 2003
Senior Opposition Official Arrested in Sudan
Syrian prime minister slams US at end of Sudan visit
Sudan's Bashir says peace possible within 2 months
Sudan Admits Troops Killed in Darfur Fighting
Rebels Claim Capture of Northwestern Sudanese City
Sudanese Warring Factions Start Final Phase of Talks
Sudan, Rebels to Resume Talks in Kenya Today
News links, June 2003
Explosives Were Bound for Sudan
Sudan Sets Up Special Branch to Deal With Terrorism Cases
Sudan Hunts 40 Suspected Extremist Fugitives
Sudan Offers Referendum, Poll After Peace Accord
Under US pressure, Sudan says Hamas must stay within limits
Malaria kills 4,000 people in Sudan each month: official
Saudis detained in Sudan extradited home
Sudan Authorities Release Senior Opposition Official, Agence France
August 2003 News Links
Sudan Peace Talks Postponed Indefinitely
Sudan Peace Talks on ‘Verge of Collapse’
Southerners Slam Sudan’s Rejection of Draft Peace Accord
Southern Sudanese politicians slam government rejection of draft peace accord
Sudan Calls for International Aid to Help Flood Victims
Thousands Face Starvation in Disaster Hit Sudan, UN
September 2003 News Links
UN appeals to donors to back peace in Sudan
US to Strike Sudan From Terrorism Blacklist: Report
Sudan gov't and rebels sign key security deal
Sudanese Government and Rebels Sign Deal on Security
Sudan warring factions to extend truce by 2 months
Sudan Warring Factions Extend Cease-Fire
Sudan Reports More Progress in Kenya Peace Talks
Sudanese rebels propose new integrated force for transition
Sudan peace talks continue in Kenya; no concessions yet on key issues
Sudan Talks Stumble as Rivals Refuse to Budge on Demands
Sudan VP, rebel head set to resume talks to end Africa's longest war
Sudan rebel leader, VP to meet in Kenya for peace process talks
Rebels, Govt to Hold Talks to End Civil War in Sudan
Darfur Rebels Ready to Sign Cease-Fire With Sudan Govt
Rebel Plane Downed by Sudan Came From Kenya, Says Report
October 2003 News Links
Sudan Govt, Darfur Rebels Trade Blame for Deadlock
Sudan Fully Committed to Peace and Development
Sudan Fully Committed to Peace and Development
USAID seeks security for aid convoys to war-torn area of Sudan
Sudan Says No to Deadline for Peace Deal
Sudanese parties commit to reaching peace deal year-end — Powell
US May Lift Sudan Sanctions If Deal Reached: Powell
Sudan Sees Peace Pact With SPLA by Year-End
Militias’ Raid Kills 34 in West Sudan
Sudan Rebels Welcome Partnership Proposal
Sudanese Peace Talks Resume in Kenya
November 2003 News Links
Sudan Govt, SPLA Extend Cease-Fire Ahead of Talks
Sudan Government Accuses Opposition PCP of Sabotaging Talks about Ending Rebellion in the West
Sudan Govt Accused of Truce Violation
Sudan peace deal unlikely by year-end — rebels
Sudan, Chad to Set Up Cooperative Border Force
Scores Killed in Sudan Stampede
UN ready to repatriate Sudan refugees once peace deal signed
December 2003 News
Bashir expects final Sudanese peace agreement next week
Sudan’s Emergency Law to End After Peace Deal With Rebels
Sudan Rebels Claim to Kill 621 Troops in Darfur Area
Sudan, Rebels Agree on Wealth-Share at Talks
Sudan Government, SPLA Strike Deal on Wealth-Sharing
Sudan Peace Talks Continue
Sudan, Cairo truce talks tackled by Arabic press, Thamer Abu Baker
Sudan optimistic about year-end peace agreement — minister
Sudan rebels say see peace deal in December
Sudan, Rebels to Include Amnesty in Peace Deal
Peace predicted as Sudan foes meet
Rebel Team Makes Historic Peace Trip to Sudan Capital
Sudan Peace Deal With Mirghani
Sudanese Air Raids Kill 47 Civilians in Darfur: Rebels
Sudan Rebels, Mediators Resume Talks
January 2004 News Links
Sudan plane bombs town on Chad border — witnesses
Sudan talks adjourn for pilgrimage
Sudan refugees battle for survival on Chad border
W. Sudan rebels say killed 1,000 gov't troops, militia
UN Body Appeals for Urgent Aid for West Sudan Refugees
Sudan says south peace deal not applicable to west
Sudanese Militias Burn, Loot Fleeing Darfur Area Refugees
Sudanese foes to sign wealth share pact Wednesday
SLM Accuses Sudan Army of Killing Civilians
Sudan, Rebels Resume Talks
Sudan Arrests 3 Leaders of Islamist Party
February 2004 News Links
Sudan rebels, gov't extend truce
Sudan Says Aid Access to Darfur Improves
Sudanese paper to restart after suspension
Sudan Rebels Reject Govt Talks Proposal
Sudan offers west rebels safe passage to talks
'30 dead as Sudan's Darfour conflict spills over into Chad'
UN mounts aid airlift for Sudan refugees
Sudan assures UN of commitment to development, relief in Darfour region
Dozens Killed in Sudan Army Offensive
Sudan rebels say they downed 2 army helicopters
Sudan disagrees with Powell on peacekeepers
Sudan says captures western town from rebels
March 2004 News Links
Sudan Arrests 10 Military Officers for Planning Coup
Sudan's western war threatens to destabilise region
$673,700 allocated to clear mines in Sudan
Sudan Recasts Security Services
Sudanese lawmakers detained for aiding rebels
Sudan army bombs Darfur town, kills 6
Part of Sudan inches towards peace, another torn by war
9/11 Lawsuit Blames Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria
Abyei row raises Sudan unity doubts, official says
Darfur Region Rebels Claim to Kill 410 Sudan Govt Soldiers
Sudanese Militia Rejoins Main Rebel Group
US Proposes Series of Steps to Resolve Sudan Conflict
Rebels Claim Killing 50 Sudan Troops
April 2004 News Links
Sudanese FM, on Bahrain visit, says deal with southern rebels is close
Western Sudan rivals resume talks
Sudan Govt, Southern Rebels Locked in Tough Negotiations
US warns Sudan, rebels time running out for peace deal
Sudan ‘Blocks’ UN Team Probing Darfur Atrocities
Sudan’s Talks With SPLA Stall Over Shariah Laws Issue
Fear Runs High in West Sudan Despite Cease-Fire
Sudanese Govt, Darfur Rebels Sign Cease-Fire Agreement
Sudan Rebuffs Annan Warning Over Darfur
Sudan Govt, SPLA Agree on Key Issues; Darfur Region Talks Stall
Sudan leader urges Darfur rebels to end bloodshed
May 2004 News Links
West Sudanese feel shut out by southern peace deal
Sudan, SPLA Set June Talks to Flesh Out Peace Deal
Sudan Foes Sign Landmark Peace Accord
Sudanese in Darfur Risk Lives to Speak Out on Atrocities
Annan Hails Sudan Moves on Darfur Aid
Rebel leader in Sudan appeals for aid after militia attacks in south
200 Killed in Militia Attacks in South Sudan: SPLA
Sudan Slams US Human Rights Record Citing Iraq
US Walks Out as Sudan Elected to UN Rights Body
June 2004 News Links
Thousands Leave Sudan Refugee Camps on Eve of Powell’s Visit
Sudan Rivals Resume Peace Talks in Kenya
Pressure Mounts on Sudan Over Darfur Situation
Resumption of Final Sudan Peace Talks Postponed to Sunday: Mediator
3 Killed in Sudan Student Riots
UN humanitarian chief criticizes Sudanese government for blocking aid workers
Sudan Blames West for Darfur Conflict
Deal a must for UN success in Sudan — Annan
Sudan Rebels Release UN Workers
Sudan, Observers Sign Deal to Monitor Darfur Truce
Yemen Peace Force Ready for Sudan Mission
July 2004 News Links
Sudan Govt to Reject UK Offer of Military Help in Darfur Area
UN Council to Resume Talks on Sudanese Sanctions Resolution
Sudan, Chad Agree on Force to Monitor Darfur Border
African Union Report About the Situation in Darfur, Sudan
Tribal Clashes in Sudan Leave Scores Dead
Darfur Disarmament Under Way, Says Sudan
Sudan Says It Will Take Steps to Disarm Militias
Sudan Vows to Disarm Militia Groups in Darfur
Vajradhara, I have my suspicions that in order to not fear the unknown we may have to believe in the unseen.
Edited by - Hasan on 07/24/2004 03:29:17
25th July 2004, 13:16
It looking more like a "patch up" job, refer thread to posting in response to 95BXL, which interestingly enough a report from a CIA official "Anonymous" claimed that Muslims are ever increasing discerened with Americas foreign policy and that that is what America needs to evaluate to deter "Hardliners", I'm afraid you have to search for that.
27th July 2004, 05:05
thank you for the post.
hmm... i'm not sure that i follow you here... are you claiming that i've not raised my voice in protest over the treatment of the Palestenians?
if that's the case, i would ask you to please read the subject of this thread... Sudan. that's it. no other world crises need be addressed here. we can create their own thread so that they aren't all lumped together.
perhaps, we can find solutions to some of the issues if we break them down into smaller parts... perhaps not.. however, i'm unclear if there is a more workable method that we can employ. perhaps, if you know of one, you can relate it?
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