unmissable dua!

[sudais_fan]

this dua was done by a sheikh in makkah-
u jus all gotta listen to it-
its wicked!!!!!!
www.soislam.com/duafull.swf

[palm]

asalam alaikum
while watching this video i was thinking that we muslims despite being in such lareg numbers are simply helpless when it comes to our enemies. All we can do is make dua and thats it. We dont care to follow ISLAM but complain that we are being mistreated by non muslims. Unless and untill we follow the Quran and Sunnah ,our miseries will continue to increase.

One more thing, usama has done nothing for ISLAM. He is 'their' man. I didnt like his picture in the clip.

[doubleSfan]

yups! that du'a is dead coooool! lol..
palm...the best thing we can do is du'a! ...
a person cant do anything for it's religion..the only we he can is by making du'a to Allah...doesnt matter whether it is usama or not...

[sudais_fan]

wot do u mean about the usama part?
please elaborate

[doubleSfan]

you know in the du'a wen the imam is talkin bout helpin the right ones...or summat lyk tht...they show usama bin laden...i fink palm is talking bout that..

[palm]

exactly. This man has done nothing for the muslims so far and yet he is portrayed as a hero.Why?

[sudais_fan]

becos hes got guts-something the the arab leaders seem to be lacking

[doubleSfan]

tru...i agree wit u sudais fan

[Nadeem]

Salaam guys,

I agree with palm.Unless we follow God's deen as well as making dua we will NOT triumph and things will get worse for us.
Dua is a good thing but to make dua to Allah(swt) while disobeying Him is like asking for paradise while working for the fire!!!!

Osama bin Laden has been regarded as a hero by many people including non-muslims for having the guts to stand up against Bush and co.

DO we really have a reason to believe that he is a genuine mujahid??
I am NOT saying he is or isn't but we have NO real evidence either way,so we should stop guessing and find out the facts first before judging him!!I hope my comments were helpful.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

one thing that doesnt get me... there is no evidence about usama that he did all that 9/11 thing...so why blame him...and why accuse him of him not being a mujahid.... he has got the guts to stand up againt lyk u sed...bush n co....could you?...
you are right that we have no evidence if he is a real mujahid or not..but atleast he is doing something for the muslims...the muslim countries who are in trouble (iraq, palestine)...unlike the other muslim leaders who cant even dare to say no to america..



Edited by - doubleSfan on 05/24/2004 19:19:44

[sudais_fan]

hey usama has done a lot for the muslims-and continues to do that!
i am a supporter of him- many dont like to admit they are-but i do- and i c him as a muslim brother-
i did intense studying on him-for a sociology project and came to the conclusion that nothings wrong with my lovely brother- people r just jealous of his courage!

[doubleSfan]

hahaha i totally agree with you sudais fan!

[Magdi]

"people r just jealous of his courage"
Ya , because it takes so much courage to blow up civilians.

[doubleSfan]

n wot makes u say HE blew up the civillians? wheres ur proof?

[doubleSfan]

also...let me add...accusing someone in islam without proof...leads u to sins

[sudais_fan]

tut tut
you have been brain washed!!!
and dont you dare diss my sheikh!

[sudais_fan]

and magdi-
i wonder how he managed to blow up civilians and still be alive?

[Magdi]

Wow talk about missing the point.
Osama bin Laden on killing civilians:
"We differentiate between the man, the woman, the child, and the old people. The man is a fighter, whether he carries arms or helps kill us by paying taxes and by gathering information. He is a fighter . . . Our enemy, the target -- if God gives Muslims the opportunity to do so -- is every American male, whether he is directly fighting us or paying taxes."
Every American male?
That would be me, Ronnie, and alot of other people on this board. You call this man a hero? If he is so brave let him attack the army ON A BATTLEFIELD.

[Magdi]

"and dont you dare diss my sheikh!"
Or what? Is that a threat?

[Magdi]

"i wonder how he managed to blow up civilians and still be alive?"
I didnt say he did it himself. But he supports others in doing so.

[Nadeem]

Salaam guys,

Please for the sake of Allah(swt) can you stop your arguing based on conjecture without sure knowledge!This is how the christians went astray!!
Until we have irrevocable evidence of who Osama really is we should not any opinion as FACT.I hope you will appreciate my advice and many thanks for listening.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[sudais_fan]

and george bush is soooo good for going for war in iraq.
i mean he only killed about 15000+ people
usama suppoted the kiling of precious american blood.
i want proof that sheikh usama did september 11th. solid proof not `his` videos praising the men.
and why cant they find him? hes too clever for them eh?

[Nadeem]

Salaam,

I don't recall when anybody said that George Bush is good!!

We have sure knowledge of his evil mischief making in the world!!

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Magdi]

"and george bush is soooo good for going for war in iraq.
i mean he only killed about 15000+ people
usama suppoted the kiling of precious american blood."

Did I say i liked George Bush? No! This is such a poor argument. I give you a direct quote from Bin Laden with him advocating the killing of civilians, and then instead of addressing it you tell me well he aint as bad as bush!

"i want proof that sheikh usama did september 11th."
I did not say Usama did september 11th.

"solid proof not `his` videos praising the men."

So a man who praised these terrorists is good? Is this your standard for a muslim hero?

Nadeem, Im not engaging in conjecture. He has publically said in interviews on Al Jazeera that he supports killing civilians.

[sudais_fan]

nadeem i was being sarcastic

[sudais_fan]

yes it is my standard of a muslim hero

[doubleSfan]

haha exactly...all you have been doing is listening to the media and beliveving it...sudais fan..he aint jus ur sheikh! :P

[Magdi]

"yes it is my standard of a muslim hero"
Wow. Your standard of a Muslim hero is one who advocates the killing of civilians including the American ones on this message board like me and Ronnie. Thanks for the clarification.

[doubleSfan]

also...big DEAL if he praises ...doesnt mean he actually DID the attacks! also...watch..INSHALLAH he WILL come on the battlefied! and then you will see...cos that man fears no human being...he only has fear for Allah...and His punishment..
n Magdi..you say he is killing civillians...how can you say? ne proof? or is it just the media ur believing in?? you dont even KNOW what the truth is

[Magdi]

"also...big DEAL if he praises ...doesnt mean he actually DID the attacks!"

Why are you making me repeat myself? Again, did I say he did the attacks? No. I was simply pointing out that your standard for a Muslim Hero is someone who advocates my death, Ronnie's and all the Americans here.

"n Magdi..you say he is killing civillians"
Again , putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that?

[doubleSfan]

Magdi...you fink the killing of 'innocent mericans'....is dead bad....n u fink by 'osama' LOL!...
lemme ask...wot u fink of the INNOCENT KILLINGS of my brothers n sisters in PALESTINE? by the jews?! and my brothers n sisters in IRAQ?! by BUSH n BLAIR?!...u fink tas fair?!

[doubleSfan]

Magdi..cud u do ne betta than wot Osama is doing???

[doubleSfan]

"i wonder how he managed to blow up civilians and still be alive?"
I didnt say he did it himself. But he supports others in doing so.

Magdi..in half tht statement u ARE saying he did the attacks!

[Magdi]

"wot u fink of the INNOCENT KILLINGS of my brothers n sisters in PALESTINE? by the jews?! and my brothers n sisters in IRAQ?! by BUSH n BLAIR?!...u fink tas fair?!"
Of course I think its wrong. Killing any civilian is wrong. You should have no problem then condemning Bin Ladens philosophy.

[Magdi]

"Magdi..cud u do ne betta than wot Osama is doing???"
Yes I do. I would have to try very hard to do as much damage to Islam's image as he has done.

[Magdi]

"Magdi..in half tht statement u ARE saying he did the attacks!"
No. Read the quote I posted. He agrees with slaughtering civilians in the US. Thats what I mean by he supports them.

[doubleSfan]

Magdi..you would have done better??...you live in a HOUSE..he doesnt...although he is loooooooooaded...part of the royal fam...he is livin in God knows where..mountains? i dnt av a clu...but deffo not a house...he doesnt live the life style you do...
k supposedly...he dus come on a battle field...he has got his men all trained...his men r ready to fight...and so is he....how are you ready incase of a war?/fight?...
also..how has Osama caused DAMAGE to islam?

[doubleSfan]

you know...you keep listenin to media.....keep believing it..not as if i giv a damn...al belive wot i belive ...n u keep believin wot eva u want...no point arguin.......
al jus say only Allah SWT knows the truth...leave it at that
FULLSTOP!

[Magdi]

"you know...you keep listenin to media....."
So tell me then, what is your source?

[sudais_fan]

usama is our source innit doublesfan.
and we believe him!!!

let me remind you magdi.

that at the moment the muslim ummah has wahn in their hearts.
reported in part of a hadith. to the nearest meaning.
tere will always be a group of people fighting against the enemies of islam.

did you ever hear him say he agrees with the slaughter of amercans?
i dont think so-even i know that is wrong.

but like doublesfan said-he could have been living a life of luxury-hes got estimated $5 billion. hes given all of that to go out in the path of Allah SWT better than any of us. and you condemn him?
well so what-he doesnt need people like you.
infact many people say hes paving the way for imam mahdi. i`ll get the relevant stuff and post it. what do you think of that?

[Nadeem]

Salaam magdi,

Okay so we have all seen the dodgy videos of Osama bin Laden!
They look very contrived and doctored to me.They could be fabricated!!

Okay okay even if we take them for genuine and agree that Osama did condone the killing of American civilians,it still doesn't mean that he actually ordered the 9/11 attacks!!!Acknowledged.

And Sudais fan, HOW CAN YOU CALL HIM YOUR SHEIKH??Have you ever met him and taken religious lessons from him,maybe you took lessons from his (possibly fabricated)videos!Does he hold any scholarly qualifications or possess any authentic knowledge of Islam??
If you accept his "videos" as genuine then obviously his knowledge is poor ,indeed non-existent!!

HOW CAN YOU CALL SUCH A PERSON A HERO WHEN HE(according to you and the videos you take so seriously)OPENLY CONDONES AND ENCOURAGES MURDER AND SUICIDE?? Are you becoming mad,extremist and a terrorist?Allah(swt)forbid!!!Is this what you think genuine jihaad is??

My dear brother you are very mistaken and need to gather some GENUINE knowledge from the authentic sources instead of PRAISING SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING(in certain)ABOUT.May Allah(swt) help you and forgive you for your erroneously founded opinions,Ameen.
Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

And how can you say that Osama is living in caves in poverty,when no-one knows where he is?!This is complete conjecture,
and how can you prove that he is a genuine warrior in the path of Allah(swt)?He could have faced his so-called enemies and become martyred,couldn't he have??Maybe he has a different idea and mission,we really don't know!!

He is on the run because he is America's most wanted,he has no choice but to run for his life.A true mujahid would stand and fight!!Allah(swt) knows best.

Anyway I am NOT at all judging him as a hero or villain,cos I don't have the true facts about him!!I am just making judgements going by your opinions of him.I hope you don't get me wrong and misunderstand my NEUTRAL position on this matter.
Wasalaam and goodwill.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

yes sudais fan..Osama IS our source!
hahaha Nadeem - He is on the run because he is America's most wanted,he has no choice but to run for his life.A true mujahid would stand and fight!!Allah(swt) knows best.

you expect to him to go to Bush n say HEY YOU! KILL ME! i dnt fink so...its kinda common sense! Allah does not say mujahids shudnt care about themselves n get killed if they see the chance! i mean..if someone was after you...n u was a mujahid...wud u jus go up their face n start fytin wen ur jus 1 againts LOADS?!

[Magdi]

"usama is our source innit doublesfan.
and we believe him!!!"
Please stop dodging the question. Do you mean you met him personallly?
Nadeem, he has had public interviews before aired on al jazerra before 9-11 that nobody disputes the authenticity of. Those are the interviews i am referring to.

[doubleSfan]

n what has he said in them interviews Magdi?!

[sudais_fan]

well you tell me if i should hate him
when mullah muhammed umar was still in power-pervez mush sent someone to him to say why dont you hand over usama-it will make things easier-
mullahs reply was- `i saw in my dream Muuhammed SAW saying dont hand him over-now you tell me should i?`
and that person was mufti taqhi usmani (i think)
nuff sed

[doubleSfan]

well sed sudais fan!.... what more can u say now magdi?!
also....u dnt lyk Osama...why...cos u been listenin to MEDIA?....but MEDIA also ses alot about the INNOCENT KILLINGS of the MUSLIMS in PALESTINE AND IRAQ....u quiet bout that...n u sed u cud do alot more? ahahaha sit infrunt of yer telly?! is that it?!

[doubleSfan]

also...u gettin all vexed up cos me n sudais fan in fava of Osama...y arent you gettin vexed up bout ur bush?!

[truthinme]

Someone close this thread, please.

Edited by - truthinme on 05/28/2004 01:21:35

[Ronnie]

Welcome to the forum Truthinme,

Why should it be locked?

Regards

[sudais_fan]

``He is on the run because he is America's most wanted,he has no choice but to run for his life.A true mujahid would stand and fight!!Allah(swt) knows best.``

how do you know what he is doing?
he may have been in all those fights with the civilians.
May ALLAH grant him jannah.
and dont you judge him about being a true mujahid whilst you are in the comfort of your home please bro.

[palm]

asalam alaikum
I really do not understand what exactly has usama done for the benefit of the muslims. Everynow and then he issues a video tape in which he speaks against the west and urges the muslims against them. This gives more justification to the west to continue its offensive against Muslims. We dont know how authentic these videos are. But so far thats the only 'jihad' usama is doing.

[doubleSfan]

Osama has dun more than wot u have done!

[palm]

ALHAMDULILLAH im not usama bin ladin.
doubleSfan dont get emotional about usama. INSHALLAH sooner or later you'll come to know his reality.

[sudais_fan]

and i see you know his reality already eh?

[doubleSfan]

i think i already know the reality palm...thnks.. :)

[doubleSfan]

also...u got ur reality from media...and u knw how much crap media chats neway!

[Ronnie]

Salam DoubleSfan,

It seems to me that you are brushing off anyone that attempts to discuss with you their ideas about Bin Laden. It's your right to ignore or even push away such conversations, however I think it would be more fruitful if you discussed things with those who disagree with you. You have mentioned that people get their information from the "media," I would like to know what sources do you have in regards to his activities?

Regards

[doubleSfan]

i have done research on him from the internet... not just from one site...but from many.... n this was after 9/11

[doubleSfan]

ok..ill discuss if that is not wot m doing

[palm]

The media is portraying usmaa bin laden as a muslim hero and that is what i think most of the muslims consider him to be. You give anti american/western comments and you become a muslims hero. It is so easy to manipulate our minds. He was a CIA man in the so called afghan jihad agaisnt the russians,which in fact was a USA war against the USSR. It was by the way carried via Pakistan. After 9/11 usama should have handed himself over to the USA in order to stop the attack on Innocent Afghan muslims but he did not(as planned) and as a result christians attacked afghanistan and still the afghans are hunted down like animals. Just a few days back there are reports of bombardment by Christian led forces in Spin boldak in Afghanistan and 31 afghans have been killed including three afghan soldiers.
Every now and then we would see his stupid video being released in which he urges the muslims to carry out their attacks on western interests thus indirectly justifying the western offensives against muslims.
We should be aware of such self proclaimed good for nothing heroes.
I've heard that usma's family has business ties with the bush's family. Is that true?

[doubleSfan]

im not sure about the business....
but...merica only went in afghanistan cos the THINK Osama did the 9/11 attacks...they dont av ne proof tht he did them..it is not Osama's fault for what is happening in afghanistan...
also...why shud Osama hand him self over? mericans r jus gna kill him...but b4 that...torture him bad style...osama has sed to hu eva he is with now....that IF (God forbid) he gets caught...(so that he wnt b killed by the mericans n b tortured ) the person hu he is with...shud kill him - m not sure if that is genuine...but someone has told me tht...(i fink it was from a video he sent)
y do u cal the videos stupid?

[Magdi]

"i have done research on him from the internet... not just from one site...but from many.... n this was after 9/11"

LOL. Now thats funny.

[doubleSfan]

i sed that so i wnt get any biased ones!

[Ronnie]

Salam DoubleSfan,

merica only went in afghanistan cos the THINK Osama did the 9/11 attacks

Regardless of whether one believes Bin Laden had anything to do with it or not it is simply a fact that he approved of the actions. How many fighters were in those buildings? If you don't care about that, then how many Muslims were in them? I know you are Muslim and you believe what the Qur'an says so the murder of one innocent life is like that of all mankind. How is it that a man cheers on what is clearly against the Qur'an and you call him your hero? Please don't be offended, I just want you to consider these things.

Regards

[doubleSfan]

walaikum assalam
now wot happened on 9/11...even i say was rong cos of the innocent killings...i am not in fava...i dont WHY he cheers them...mayb cos merica afta him?

[Ronnie]

Salam DoubleSfan,

now wot happened on 9/11...even i say was rong cos of the innocent killings...i am not in fava...i dont WHY he cheers them...mayb cos merica afta him?

Even if America is after him, I'm sure you don't agree that he should be cheering on such an event, no? Since you agree that it was wrong and him cheering it is wrong wouldn't you agree that placing him in the position of "hero" would be wrong? I humbly suggest that our heroes should be those with Islam in their hearts and minds, with righteousness in their spirit and goodness in their lives. They should shun every kind of evil. Our blessed Prophet (pbuh) was never exhilirated by the death of innocents...not even of his worst enemies. He is my example. He is my hero.

I pray that we are guided onto the right path of the Lord.

Regards

[doubleSfan]

who could beat the Prophet SAW?!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE!EVER!!!!!!
i think tht wen he cheers the killing of the merican n british n u knw all dem ppl fytin in the muslim countries...even i cheer tht! but the innocent killings...i disagree...but we all av different opinions..and in my eyes...at the moment...Osama is the hero...cos all we are doing is sitting at home..see whats going on...pray for our brothers and sisters.n thats it..while he has given up on all his luxurios stuff he had...n is fytin in the path of Allah by training men how to fyt...fyt for jihad

[Nadeem]

Salaam,

Here we go again,how do you know where the hell he is???Is he really training people to fight jihaad according to sharia??He could be living in luxury in hiding,we don't know.Allah(swt)knows where he is.

How can you regard someone you know nothing about as a hero???
The internet is full of dodgy info so how can you be sure about anything on those sites about him??

You have no sure knowledge about him and are really silly to regard him as a hero as Ronnie pointed out in his last post.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

continued,

I think palm's last post made more sense than all of your and sudais fan's posts put together!!Even though there may not be enough evidence to back up ALL OF his claims,they are MUCH more likely to be correct than YOURS.

But at the end of the day you believe what you want without any REAL evidence and defend it with your life.Allah(swt) help you,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

wheres your 'REAL' evidence?
NOW the internet is fully of dodgy stuff...not wen i did my research..i dint even KNOW Osama was until 9/11...serious!(m not tht old) and i started doin research on him a few days after 9/11...n m serious!
also..it is up to me who i want to regard as my hero...
if you had the choice, to either be with Osama (for a battle against what the non-muslims are doing in our muslim countries) , would you be with him , or leave it?? ...
and about the training thing, i have seeen MANY GENUINE videos!
i say May Allah Help you! AMEEEEEN!

[doubleSfan]

i dint know who* Osama was

[Ronnie]

Salam DoubleSfan,

who could beat the Prophet SAW?!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE!EVER!!!!!!

I think you misunderstood. Trust me I wouldn't compare Bin Laden to the Prophet (P). I mentioned the Prophet so that I can point him out as the example so that maybe when we choose a "hero" it would be one that tries to emulate him.

while he has given up on all his luxurios stuff he had...n is fytin in the path of Allah by training men how to fyt...fyt for jihad

In your research did you come across any information regarding him before he gave them up? As for fighting, in who's cause? Muslims? What country has he made better? What people has he freed from oppression? Why did he not take care of Muslims in Muslim countries who are governed by their own people? If Jihad is his cause where was it when Muslims needed it in their own countries...i.e. Iraq?

and about the training thing, i have seeen MANY GENUINE videos!

The "geniune" videos could be as fake as the media reports right?

Regards

[doubleSfan]

well...he isnt going to be fighting for himself now is he!!!

[palm]

As far as i see it all usama is doing is giving justifications to the christian atrocities on muslims. He was and is a CIA man just like saddam, or musharaf or almost all of the muslim dictators of today and he is only helping out the western interests. So far usama has proven to be of no benefit to the muslims.

[doubleSfan]

you belive that..and i will belive what i belive :)

[Ammar]

i agree wid palm

[Nadeem]

Salaam doublesfan,

I didn't say that I had any REAL evidence for or against him!!

All I have been saying is that none of us have any GENUINE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE about him either way,

SO IT IS FOOLISH FOR ANY OF US TO FORM OPINIONS AND HOLD BELIEFS WITHOUT ANY PROPER EVIDENCE.This is the Islamic viewpoint.

We can guess as much as we like or believe in any website or whatever we like ,but without the proper evidence,we are nowhere NEAR the real truth,so until the real truth comes out,we should stay neutral in our ideas about Osama.I HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS MUCH!
Please read my signature.
Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[sudais_fan]

`and there will be people in my ummah who will fight the enemies till evil is wiped out`

[Nadeem]

Salaam sudaisfan,

Do you mean to persist in following Osama? It's your choice.
Can you please give a reference for the statement in your last post?
Also can you please explain how it refers to either Osama or yourself?

What has Osama done for Islam with his wealth?
Have any mosques,orphanages,hospitals,schools or wells been built by him?
Any help given to the plight of the oppressed palestinians?
Any sadaqa given to the poor and starving in places like Ethiopia?

HOW CAN YOU ACCEPT HIM AS YOUR SHEIKH OR AS A MUJAHID WHEN YOU OR DOUBLESFAN SAID IN A RECENT POST THAT HE ORDERED HIS FRIEND TO KILL HIM IF THE AMERICANS WERE GOING TO CATCH HIM???????????MEANING THAT HE(like the Japanese and some other peoples)WOULD RATHER BE KILLED BY HIS OWN THAN BE KILLED BY HIS ENEMIES!!!
How can he justify asking his fellow muslim brother to MURDER him,rather than be MARTYRED by his enemies.

Does this sound like a learned Islamic sheikh or mujahid to you??
It sounds like the most IGNORANT FOOL to me!!!!
I am sure most people would agree with me.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

Edited by - Nadeem on 06/01/2004 18:24:43

Edited by - Nadeem on 06/10/2004 15:56:07

[doubleSfan]

There is clearly good reason to doubt the tape. There is excessive noise on the audio track, making it impossible to really hear what is being said. Given that the tape was recorded in an area supposedly devoid of audio urban signature, there should have been little ambient noise, yet the speech is masked with a great deal of noise. Then there is that gap in the audio track, reminiscent of Nixon's missing 18 minutes, and the truths it once contained which are lost forever to history.

Doubts have already been raised regarding the correct translation of the speaker's words into "We", when his words could also mean "They".

But there are very good reasons to suspect that the tape is not what the US Government claims it to be. In the tape, Osama supposedly states that he knew of the attack on the WTC 5 days in advance, yet we know from the preparations inside the United States that the plan had been in existence for much longer than that. The records of those flight schools where the hijackers supposedly trained have been confiscated under the watchful eye of Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida and brother to the President. Will the Bush administration now claim that the hijackers learned to fly a passenger jet in just 5 days?

Likewise, The translation of the Osama tape has him stating that the hijackers did not know they were about to die, yet the letters the FBI claims to have found written by the hijackers indicate the exact opposite. Then too there were the numerous words added to the translation in parenthesis to alter and redirect the meaning of the translated words. Finally, this was not the first video tape claiming to be evidence against Osama to surface, and the public is well aware that the claims made regarding the earlier "confession" tape, including a claim that Osama had nukes, were created by the translator, not actually stated by Osama.

As quoted in the Associated Press, Al-Muhajiroun is reporting that the video tape is actually years old; the target being discussed is not the World Trade Towers, but a target inside Saudi Arabia. Even hard line secular Pakistanis are unconvinced. Iqbal Haider, a former senator from the party of ousted prime minister Benazir Bhutto, said he found it hard to believe that bin Laden would allow himself to be filmed confessing to the crime. "It is hard to believe that a man who masterminds the September attacks which such secrecy and finesse could be that stupid and imprudent," he said. "I hate Osama and the Taliban because they inflicted incalculable damage on Muslims ... but it is hard to digest that he can be such a fool."

The figure claimed to be Osama appears to write notes with his right hand, yet the FBI's description of Osama indicates he is left-handed. The man in the video wears a ring which does not appear on other confirmed photos of Osama.

You are being lied to by the US Government. They are using deception to trick you into surrendering your freedoms, money, and the lives of your children for a phony "War On Terror".

[doubleSfan]

I'm surprised you haven't heard that Hadith Nadeem...
I can't find the reference to it but yes, it is an authentic one.

[Nadeem]

Salaam doublesfan,

Thanks for your reply and welcome back!You seem to have put forward some good arguments,but I haven't seen any of that footage,so I cannot judge.I do not believe any of the LIES from any media source and like to base my beliefs on clear irrefutable evidence.THAT IS WHY I SAID; WE SHOULD WAIT TIL THE REAL TRUTH COMES OUT ,THEN DECIDE.
I WASN'T ACTUALLY ACCUSING OSAMA OF BEING AN IGNORANT FOOL,BUT I WAS SAYING THAT HE WOULD BE ONE IF THAT STORY YOU TOLD ABOUT HIM ASKING HIS FRIEND TO KILL HIM IF THE AMERICANS WERE GOING TO CATCH HIM,WERE TRUE! Where did you get it from?

Is it allowed in Islam to ask your fellow brother to KILL you if the enemy are about to catch you in order to avoid being martyred?

You did not make any comments about my question regarding Osama's wealth and how he has spent it in the way of Allah(swt)!!

Also you did not tell me how that hadith refers to Osama or any of his followers!

I have heard similar ahadith,but I like to see references and establish authenticity before I accept them.

It does sound authentic though.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

lols aah well...
I won't be on much now...I'm busy with a couple of things :S

Is it allowed in Islam to ask your fellow brother to KILL you if the enemy are about to catch you in order to avoid being martyred?

I don't know about that :S but I think it would be better being martyred don't you think?

[hasan]

For something to "sound authentic" to me, through an indication that they believe in the Help of Allah, is that for Him to ask his fellow brothers to publicise his renouncement of religion if they fear he will be coerced or made a puppet to what the captors want him to say.

Hasan Demirkol

[Nadeem]

Salaam Doublesfan,

NO WAY!! It is not allowed at all to ask your fellow muslim brother to KILL you in order to avoid being possibly martyred by your enemies.

It is obviously preferrable to be martyred!

It is NOT allowed for muslims to kill each other under any circumstances at all,OTHER THAN BY death penalty for a crime ,under ALLAH'S(SWT)laws.

It would be murder and also an act of kufr to kill a fellow muslim if he asked you or not!!I hope I am clear on this.

So if that story regarding Osama is true ,then he is an ignorant fool!!So please can you tell us where you got it from??

What are your sources of information and how reliable are they?

They sound quite dodgy to me!!

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

Assalamu alaikum

I was reading Surah Al-Kahf before and one of the Ayah's was talking about having discussion of things you are not 100% sure of...I can't remember what Ayah it is though..and here we are not 100% sure of Osama :)

It is NOT allowed for muslims to kill each other under any circumstances at all,OTHER THAN BY death penalty for a crime ,under ALLAH'S(SWT)laws.

Yeah I knew that but don't you think what Pakistan is doing wrong??

[Guest]

Salaam brothers. Indeed this dua is a most beautiful dua....too bad they arrested the great imam, may Allah shower his blessings on him. And as for brother Nadeem, i say this. I think that the way in which Osama meant that they should kill him is that before he allowed himself to be taken in to be tortured and humiliated in front of the kafir media...they should kill him. I do not think there is so much wrong in that....hes just saying that i want to keep my honour.

Think about wat will happen to him if they caught him. They wouldnt kill him.....no thats too kind....they'd make a laughing stock out of him...he'd would face humiliation...incredible humiliation. U know wat these bastards are like.

For any here who support Osama, i rate you all and say may Allah help guide the others as well. Brothers who dont support him, do u reli think that more good will *** 2 u from USA than Osama......? And what has Osama done that i should support him? Perhaps he hasnt used his wealth top build mosques and hospitals but one thing he did pay for was the extension of Masjid Al-Haraam. Also look at the guy he has left all of his wealth and lives in a mountain cave....theres a role model.

One thing i always say is that Islam is not complex, it is not difficult. If it is complex, if it is difficult.....its because YOU are not simple enough. Alhamdulillah Osama lives a simple like now at least.... If the man truly is on the right path (insha Allah) then i dont think there is a bigger mujahid in this world than him.

May Allah help him and his brothers....if he is on the right path. May Allah help us all.

Mohammed Haroon

[Nadeem]

Salaam doublesfan,

Now you are getting to the point,about Sura al Kahf.
This is what I've been trying to tell you all along.If were not 100% sure of anything ,then we should not form any belief regarding it until we are 100% sure.

Sheikh Haroon,

I never actually criticised the dua itself.Only certain people who read such duas and while disobeying Allah(swt) and then they expect miracles to happen!!People who commend and take Osama as a hero without sure knowledge about his real identity!!

I am surprised at your argument,which clearly goes against the sharia prohibition on murdering fellow muslims!!

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HONOUR OR MERCY KILLING IN ISLAM,this is a foreign kaffir concept!!!

Please can you show me where it is allowed in the sharia.

You should bear in mind the many scholars throughout history and even Prophet Yusuf(as),who were imprisoned for defending the truth.Even many Prophets(as) were slain by the Israelites as the Qur'an tells us.

So why doesn't Osama follow their example if he truly is a mujahid??

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[doubleSfan]

BIN LADEN'S LATEST MESSAGE TO THE UMMAH
Jun 03, 2004 - PF


We remind our viewers that the statements, opinions and points of view expressed in this article are those of the author and shall not be deemed to mean that they are necessarily those of Jihad Unspun, the publisher, editor, writers, contributors or staff.

Praise be to Allah, The Lord of the universe, and peace and mercy be upon our prophet Mohammed, his family and all his companions.

This is a message to the Ummah in general and to our Muslim brothers in Iraq in particular. May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you. I salute our steadfast brothers in Iraq, the land of the heroes, and I salute the Mujahideen for the sake of Allah and I say to them: "You are the eminent men among the Arabs and the defenders of Islam, and the Muslims cannot thank you and praise enough. A whole year has elapsed since the invasion took place and the invaders have not been able to implement their plans as they had designed them. This is with the grace of Allah and thanks to your Jihad and the Jihad of those who supported you. May Allah reward you in the best manner.

The enemies have been stunned by the ferocity of the resistance and they did not enjoy a easy sailing. The results achieved from this blessed Jihad, domestically and abroad, with the grace of Allah, were tremendous and positive on several levels, including the human losses among the enemies ranks and the depletion in their financial budgets and they are still incurring losses after losses. Praise and gratitude be to Allah.

I wish to address several points:

First, a horrific and very serious event which revealed the facts as they are to everyone occurred when the occupier Bremer declared that he would not accept Islam to be the source of all legislation; in other words he does not accept for Islam to be the religion of Iraq and consequently the announced constitution was issued according to his wishes. This indicates clearly that the Iraqi Governing Council is a mere dummy in the enemies’ hands and a tool to implement their schemes on the masses. On the other side of the coin, it reveals what they harbor in term of hatred for this religion, and that this struggle is a religious and a doctrinal one and that the clash is in fact a clash of civilizations. This is because they are eager to dissolve the Islamic identity throughout the whole of the Islamic world. This is their true stance towards us.

As for their stance vis-à-vis the other nations, they could coexist with all the other systems of the world in the East or in the West, because these systems can be changed and deceived in a manner that would enable them to ###### up the riches of the nations, enslave them and Americanize them according to their desires. However, the real challenge for them is in the Islamic world, where the main confrontation is in the first instance a religious and doctrinal one, not an economic or military one. Their intention is to eradicate Islam before anything else, because they are totally convinced that their plans in our countries, with their various policies, especially the economic, intellectual, military and security policies, could not be implemented if Islam is existent and ruling over the region. This is because the true Muslims posses the doctrine, the willpower and the faculty to resist their plans and ward off their oppression and to bring retaliation on them tit for tat.

Once it has become absolutely clear to everyone that the American campaign had no relation whatsoever to removing the weapons of mass destruction or to alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people, but it was rather a flagrant occupation in the proper sense of the word. Hence, Jihad has become obligatory upon all the Muslims in Iraq, in the North, the Centre and the South. Those who had been using as a pretext their religious chieftainships and who are participating in the Interim Governing Council have run out of excuses now that the Council has endorsed the constitution of Bremer the infidel.

It is well known that the including of any other source of legislation with Islam is deemed as a major act of polytheism that takes one out of the fold of Islam. In other words, by approving the constitution, the members of the Iraqi Governing Council have magnified their infidelity even further. Otherwise, what is the difference between the political chieftainships such as Fahad, Hosni, Jaber, Saddam and the rest of the rulers, and the religious chieftainships in the interim council of polytheism? Our major reason for declaring the rulers as infidels is because they do not judge by the Shari'ah of Allah, the Almighty, in all our affairs and because they are allies of America and they use the pressures it places on them as their excuse. This is the same flaw in which the interim council of polytheism has fallen and consequently, the same rule applies to them.

What we said in the 17th communiqué, pertaining to the evidences on the rulers’ apostasy and their non adherence to the exigencies of "There is no god but Allah", does also apply to the religious chieftainship of the interim ruling Council and to any other chieftainship in the Islamic world that perpetrates what they have perpetrated. One of the main denotations of the phrase "There is no god but Allah" is that there is no ruler and no legislator but Allah. Legislation is one of the main characteristics of godliness. Hence, he who wittingly endorses this Council and this Constitution will then reject Allah the Almighty. The believer is commanded to obey Allah and to obey his Messenger (peace and mercy be upon him). Allah the Almighty says "Say if you love Allah then follow me and Allah will love you."[3-31]. The Almighty also says "We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah." [4-64]. Therefore, he who obeys the Messenger is the believer; and he who obeys the ruler or the scholar, irrespective of his type, making lawful what Allah has forbidden or forbidding what Allah has made lawful becomes a polytheist. Allah the Almighty says"What! Have they partners (in godhead), who have established for them some religion without the permission of Allah"(42-21).

Therefore, it is imperative upon the sincere ones to bypass these apostatizing chieftainships and it is imperative to have a rightly guided leadership and a straightforward system to undertake reform and liberation, as the (Islamic) system is infallible with the grace of Allah. Considering the leaderships are as we mentioned earlier, the onus therefore falls on those who come after them from among the masses, starting with the most suited and so on. Therefore if some of the prominent individuals apostatized or slackened, let the ones who come after them assume the responsibility even if they were young; because the truth is bigger than everyone. In this case, it is imperative upon the truthful ones within the Ummah in general and within Iraq in particular to disavow all the apostatizing leaderships, political and religious alike and to forsake and dismiss the leaderships that neglect Jihad or the leaderships that leans towards the transgressors, and seize the initiative from them, expound openly the truth and hoist the banner of Jihad against the crusaders and the apostates.

In the light of the aforementioned, everyone who assists the infidels against the Muslims, such as assisting the occupying forces or their surrogates in the interim or permanent government, he will have committed an act that nullifies his Islam, and that makes his blood and property volatile and his spouse would be divorced from him. Also, for the people of Iraq, Jihad is not only obligatory against the crusaders, but also against the apostate government and those who support it. It is also obligatory upon the Muslims throughout the Islamic world and outside it, who can support and back this Jihad with their souls and their wealth to do so until sufficiency is established, according to the guidance of the trustworthy scholars, who are well versed with the conditions of the land and the people.

Secondly, the so-called transfer of power to the Iraqis is a flagrant deception aimed at sedating the masses and aborting the armed resistance. The sincere and Mujahideen people of Iraq were not deceived by this ruse, for there will be no sovereignty for Iraq as long as a crusader soldier remains over its lands and as long as Iraq does not refer in all its affairs to Islam.

Thirdly, the Musaylama (false prophet) of the present time, George Bush, says that Iraq is the foreground for war against terrorism, which means in a clear expression that the foreground for the war against Islam today is in Iraq. This makes it incumbent upon all the Muslims to intensify their efforts in order to resist this onslaught. I urge the youth and the sincere traders, to seize this opportunity and undertake this sublime task of defending this religion and salvage this Ummah, by supporting this Jihad with their properties and by exhorting and fighting against our enemies, especially in Palestine and Iraq.

If your winds were to blow, exploit them …. For every palpitation will eventually subside. (Poetry)

It is also said : "If you are opinionated then be decisive … For the opinion is corrupted when you hesitate."

This is a rare opportunity in every sense of the word and a priceless one in its essence, to sharpen the faculties of the Ummah and to break its shackles, in order to storm forward towards the battlefields of Jihad in Iraq, to bury the head of international infidelity. However, let the youths beware of the Bedouins who seek excuses, those who delude themselves and their brethren into thinking that they are standing before a major fortified borderline, while in fact they slackened in making the borderline impregnable and they allowed the country to become an easy prey for the crusaders and the apostates, and the Muslims were defeated from their side. Therefore, it is high time the sincere Muslims from among their brothers broke free in order to redress their current state of affairs.

It is also imperative to break free and beware of the sorcery of the media and not to become spectators of the calamities and the events; our mission is rather to fight the enemy and make the events. This is a decisive war with major implications, for either we attain exaltation and might or reap decline and humiliation. We are at a crossroads and this is a mighty task for the whole Ummah. It is clear that the great deception that America is propagating today, under the theme of imposing reform on the greater Islamic world, is but a carbon copy of the project of Bremer in Iraq, in terms of estranging the religion, plundering the riches, killing the men, terrorizing and transgressing against the sanctities, and even against the women in their beds in the middle of the night. There is no power and no might but through Allah.

Do you not see? Do you have no sense of honor for your religion and your brothers? There is not much left between yourselves and a repeat of what has befallen your brothers in Iraq. So contemplate and do not be like those who at every point fail to comprehend. Let it be known that the first lines of defense for the other parts of the Muslims lands and especially the Two Holy Shrines, starts in the land of the two rivers (Iraq). So wake up to the Messenger of Allah (saw) and perceive the magnitude of the threat and the swiftness of the events, and set forth towards the battlefields of Jihad. The Sheikh of Islam (may Allah have mercy on his soul) has reported the general consensus stipulating that the highest duty after belief is to repel the assailing enemy.

Let it be known that Allah knows if I were a pupil amongst you, I would leave my studies and head for the battle as Allah has ordered. "Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew." [9-41]

And if I were a trader, I would leave my business and join the battalions of the Mujahideen, in response to the saying of Allah "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew!" [61-10,11].

And were it easy for me to address you, I would talk to you a great deal about the top issue, namely "There is no God but Allah"; about its denotations and the acting upon its exigencies, and about Jihad, the pinnacle of Islam’s hump. So fight for the sake of Allah, because the current crisis is not one of knowledge or books; knowledge is widespread with the grace of Allah.

The crisis lies in our slackness in working according to what we know, due to the weakness of our trust, sincerity and certitude. Our religion cannot be revived with the mere crumbs of our properties and our time, but rather by standing under the shades of the swords. So blessed are those who have perceived the issue and emulated the Prophet of mercy and the Prophet of war (mercy and peace be upon him), so they fought and were killed for the sake of Allah, and we pray to Allah to admit them with the martyrs.

The people of Iraq have quenched the burning desire in the hearts of the Muslims during the month of Badr (Ramadhan) and beyond in Al-Nasiryyah, by killing and injuring tens of soldiers from among the occupation forces, and in Baghdad, Al-Fallujah, Al-Ramadi, Mosul and Tikrit, and by inflicting material and moral losses upon the enemy, by downing their warplanes, making them taste what the Muslims are tasting in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.

To the people of Samarra, Ba’aqubah and other cities, who have hoisted the banner of Jihad, we salute them and hold them in high esteem, and we say to them "persevere and be steadfast. An hour of perseverance more than that of Bush and his mercenaries will bring you what is loved most with the leave of Allah, for victory is but the perseverance of one hour.

My soul and my possessions I sacrifice … for the knights in whom I had faith
Knights who do not tire of death … even when the fierce war erupts
Their bravery never wanes though … they get burnt with war, time after time
And when the battle intensifies they care little … And remedy madness with madness. (Poetry)

Before I conclude, I remind you of an event reported by narrators, when the Muslims were about to conquer North Africa, the commander of the polytheists offered an reward for he who kills the commander of the Muslims, so Abdullah Ibnul Zubayr suggested to the commander of the Muslims to offer the same reward to he who kills the commander of the polytheists. So a man from among the Muslims killed him and he was given the reward in full.

You are aware of the fact that America has offered major rewards to those who kill the Mujahideen for the sake of Allah. And we in the Al-Qaida organization pledge with the leave of Allah to offer a reward equaling 10,000 grams of gold to he who kills the occupier Bremer or his deputy or the commander of the American forces in Iraq or his deputy.

As for the United Nations, it is but a crusader-Zionist tool, even if it were to hide behind some relief work. Who is it that handed Palestine to the Jews but the United Nations? Who was it that separated East Timor but the United Nations? And who was it that justified the embargo on Iraq and caused the death of more than one million children but the United Nations? The United Nations today is pursuing its evil role against the Ummah. Therefore, he who kills Kofi Annan or the head of his mission to Iraq or his representatives such as Lakhdar Ibrahmi, he will receive the same 10,000 grams of gold as reward. Also, a reward of 10,000 grams of gold will be paid for killing a military or a civilian from among the masters of the veto, such as the Americans and the British, and 500 grams of gold will go to those who kill a military or a civilian from the slaves of the General Assembly in Iraq , such as Japan and Italy. Due to the security situation, the payments of the rewards will be at the earliest opportunity with the leave of Allah.

As for he who dies after killing one of the occupation soldiers, the greatest reward for us and for him would be when Allah bestows martyrdom for his sake; as for his lesser reward, it would go to his inheritors with the leave of Allah.

Finally, I appeal to the youths of Islam and say to them: come forth to fight the crusaders and the Jews and celebrate the praises of Allah a great deal, for by Allah, it is either victory or martyrdom and only those whose life span has come to an end will be killed, so his family will miss him, only for his soul to be, as our Messenger (peace and mercy be upon him) said, to be in the bellies of green birds that roam freely in heaven as they please, then head towards lanterns suspended with the throne of the Most Compassionate. There is no comparison between the two vicinities, the vicinity of his family and the vicinity of his lord.

So dear youth of Islam everywhere, especially those of the neighborhood, where the duty upon you is conclusive, dear Muslim youths in the Arabic peninsula, and in Egypt and greater Syria, dear youths of Rabia’a and Mudhr, dear grandsons of Salahuddine, dear knights of Mohammed the Conqueror, dear Fedayeen of Umm Al-Fida and Aleppo, and the lions of Muan and Al-Zarqa, and the brave of Azad, the heroes of Assir, Hashed, Madhaj and Bakil, let your supplies be continuous so that you may rescue the land of the two rivers, because the war there has erupted and its fire is ablaze; the knights of the cross have attacked and killed thousands and imprisoned thousands, and now want to annihilate and destroy the land. They are with the grace of Allah fighting steadfastly the treacherous Romans, sacrificing everything they hold dear in order to defend their religion, so may Allah bless them and bless those who support them.

They passionately defended their cause … sacrificing their lives and their properties;
Their determination is fearless before death … and they forsake their paternal and maternal uncle
They left behind their beloved … and followed in the footsteps of Khaled and Bilal. (Poetry)

O Allah our Lord, accept from us our martyrs and heal our injured and liberate our prisoners. Establish firmly our heroes and help them with a victory of yours, for there is no helper for them and for us except you.

O Allah, the inspirer of the book and the conductor of the clouds, and the conqueror of the confederates, vanquish them and grant us victory against them. "Our Lord! Give us good in this world and good in the Hereafter, and defend us from the torment of the Fire."

O Allah, subscribe to this Ummah a righteous matter, whereby the people who obey you will be mighty and the people who disobey you will be humiliated, and whereby goodness will be commanded and evil will be forbidden.

O Allah grant the Mujahideen victory over the infidels in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines, Kashmir, Chechnya, Pakistan and everywhere; you are the Listener and the Responder.

And the last of our prayers is Praise be to Allah the Lord of the Universe.

[doubleSfan]

Sheikh Haroon
You are not allowed to kill a fellow Muslim brother/sister in Islam! That is totally Haram..

[Guest]

Salaam brothers.

Perhaps i did not make my point clear enough... I didnt actually support honour or mercy killings...just that i could understanding why Osama said wat he said... simply an opinion not islamic knowledge.

Never said Islam promotes it... just that i understand y Osama wants it. Mercy killing?

Didnt reli think of it that way. Yes i suppose that is wrong if it is a mercy killing of course. Hmmm...uve got me thinking u know...mashallah.

[Nadeem]

Salaam brothers,

What I wanted to say was that Osama should NEVER come out with outlandish unislamic statements like that if he wants to be known as a mujahid.The fact that he makes or appears(or is falsely portrayed as making such silly statements) seems to show that he is not well learned in Islam.

Well doublesfan, your post of Osama's message to the Ummah,seemed to sound quite well informed.

We still have the painstaking task of trying to establish the truth about OSAMA,Allah(swt) help us,Ameen.

Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.