allegations against hazrat omar 2

[Ronnie]

Please continue here:

ALIALIALI
Junior Member

Pakistan
120 Posts Posted - 02/21/2004 : 13:00:02
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salam,
master mind, i have presented my arguement from the books in which you believe the most, i.e ur books. got it..
now ur last post didnot mention any references and sources, but you were pretty much absorbed in you digressions that you neglected the sourcs and references that i had presented in my post or "copy pasting".

now in order to refute the shia point of view, you must come with some thing from the shia books, preferably nahjul balahga and quran majeed.

i am sure, that u understand what i am trying to say here...and once again, make it a healthy debate.

wasalam

ALI HASSAN

[ALIALIALI]

thanks ronnie

ALI HASSAN

[mastermind]

Ali

What ever i have presented to you are facts from different sources of Islamic History which are recognized and well known in the Muslim World.If i didnt quote the references of the sources, it doesnt mean that the information which i have presented was made up by me.
If you really are not satisfied with my replies and comments, than i will present my arguments to refute your claims from your most reliable and recognized sources of Shism as well as from Qur'an.

It is an established fact that Shias donot accept the Caliphate of Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra) and Umar(ra) since according to thier beleifs ,they were not the rightly guided personalities and did not deserve to be the leaders over the Muslim Ummah.

It is clearly mentioned in Nehajul Balagha(Shia source attributed to Hazrat Ali) :

"People who did Beyat to Abu Bakr and Omar, did beyat with me in the same way. So the one who is present cannot select any one else (as Imam) and the one who is absent cannot reject (the decision). Shora belongs to Mohajer and Ansar, so if they gather around a person and appoint him as their Imam this is to the satisfaction of Allah. If any one disapprove them on this or innovate something about it he will be taken back to the people who he has left (by accepting the appointed Imam), and if he refused to do so people fight with him as he is going to a path other than of Muslims and God will do to him as he wants ..." Nahj Al-Balaqah Letter No. 6.

Keeping this letter and the unacceptable character of the first two Caliphs in view ,dont you think that Hazrat Ali(Ra) did a major sin by accepting the Caliphate of Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra) and Umar(ra)?
Havent you indirectly rejected the Caliphate of Hazrat Ali(Ra) by rejecting the Caliphate of the first two Caliphs?

Now lets come to Qur'an (Ultimate words of Allah).

Their are some verses of the Qur'an which states:

"So those who emigrated and were driven out of their homes, who suffered in My cause, who fight and were slain - will most certainly blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into gardens beneath which rivers flow. A reward from Allah; and with Allah is the best of 'reward (Al-imraan 3: 195)".

their is another verse from the Qur'an which states:

"And the early pioneers (_as_saabiqun_al_awwalun_) - the Muhajirin and the Ansar and those who follow them in good: Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with him. And He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to dwell therein, forever. (at-Tawbah 9: 100)"

In these verses of the Qur'an ,Allah is clearly talking about the muhajirins(emigrants) who migrated from Makkah to Medinah and all the Prominent and Great Islamic Scholars agree that among those who migrated were Hazrat Abu Bakr(ra), Umar(ra)and Usman(ra) and Allah has agreed to grant them paradise.
Dont you think that by admitting them to the Gardens of Paradise ,Allah(astaghfirullah) did injustice since they according to your beliefs turned against the Ahley Bait and mistreated them after the demise of Prophet(p.b.u.h)?




Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

Edited by - mastermind on 02/21/2004 19:01:40

[sharaa]

Salaam ALIALIALI,
I notice you ignored the hadith I provided on the other thread in which Muhammad (saws)expressley denounced the beating of ones's self in mourning. Are you that hard headed that you would accept some hadith but ignore others that are just as reliable?

Salaam,
Sharaa

[ALIALIALI]

salam,
mastermind.
it has been said in the quran to obey your parents. agree.?
so if you dont obey your parents, then that means that you are disobeying Allah and your parents. agree?

but what if you parents order you to inazaobillah burn the holy book.
then what will you do. will you obey them and subsequently obey what is said in the Quran??

ponder over it..the answer to your GENERAL verses IS IN IT.

and as for you citing from nehjulbalagah...man come on...first go and understand the meaning of it and then come and discuss, before landing in an awkward position.

and for sharaa:
you didnt give the source of your hadith. to prove the matam wrong to shias, you must prove it from the Quran or nehjulbalagha. got it

anyway, if we consider youR hadith, its contradicting the incident of hazrat awais karni. remeber. the holy prophet told the sahaba about hazrat awais karni, but didnt say that his actions were wrong..
the matam we do is in the love of the martyers of Karbala. we have learnt it over the years from our imams.(and not the so called sahabas)


ALI HASSAN

[mm_ca04]

Hmm...maybe before you open one of the Sunni sources, you should have an open mind and set aside your grudges against the first three Khalifs. Not to insult you or anything, but it seems as though whenever we refute you, you automatically state the hadith is weak, or tell us to read in to it, etc.

As for mastermind, he didn't land in a awkward position at all. It coudln't have been said better. Good job. :)

And sharaa, that was exactly the hadith I was looking for. Thank you so much. If Ali doesn't accept it as strong hadith, there is nothing we can do to make him believe that...

Wasalaam


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Allah is the Greatest.

[ALIALIALI]

sir read my post again...i guess u didnt get it. WELL THAT was very general, without any references, without any sources and SAYING IAM RIGHT. ;)

ALI HASSAN

[Magdi]

[b]it has been said in the quran to obey your parents. agree.?
so if you dont obey your parents, then that means that you are disobeying Allah and your parents. agree
[i]
Actually the Quran doesnt tell you to obey your parents. It says to be good to them. There is a difference. Perhaps you should use a more accurate analogy.



Edited by - Magdi on 02/21/2004 23:25:20

Edited by - Magdi on 02/21/2004 23:25:59

[ALIALIALI]

mr magdi,
i feel very sad, when i have to deal with such questions relating to common understanding.
anyway..

ok agreed...be good to parents
happy now!!!

so if YOU be good to your parents, you are obeying God. agree?
and how do you be good to your parents?...ofcoure by taking care of them, by respecting them, by obeying them...ETC....got it or not....?

so if you are not obeying your parents, you are not being good to them...agree

if you are not doing good to your parents...you are not obeying Allah....got it..?

and if your parents ask you to do something against islam, then will you obey the holy commandment and be good to them and do what ever they ask you to do? ...
or will you disobey Allah and his messenger and not obey your parents and not do good to them??

i hope thats more elaborate and easy.
i am shocked to see, ppl picking out trivial MISTAKES from my post, and not trying to understand what i mean to say..pathetic!!



ALI HASSAN

[Magdi]

"so if you are not obeying your parents, you are not being good to them...agree"
No i dont agree. You do not have to obey your parents in everything they tell you to do and the quran never implies this. You should obey them only within reason. So again, you may think this is trivial but it isnt.
And also the quran is very specific about not obeying them when it comes to sin:
029.008
YUSUFALI: We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) strive (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did.

So again a horrible analogy.


Edited by - Magdi on 02/22/2004 00:15:04

[ALIALIALI]

wowa, thats it....u agree...
the quran does not imply that you have to obey you parents in every thing they say....agree...

that was my point..thank God you agree..

now the verse realting to parents is very much like the one given by mastermind..regarding the muhajirs and insaars going to jannah......

and about the one he quoted from nehjulbalagha...u ppl didnt get this..
Hazrat Ali is writing this letter to Mowaiyya, he is saying that
even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. got it??

he is not saying that he is accepting the caliphate of the first two calpihs, but saying that, even accoding to them, his caliphate is justified. to press mowiyya that there is no point not accepting him as the caliph. i hope its clear.

God... you ppl couldnot understand such basic concepts.. read again the letter from hazrat ali to mowiyya and all the bcaKground..
it will help you..



ALI HASSAN

[Magdi]

"now the verse realting to parents is very much like the one given by mastermind..regarding the muhajirs and insaars going to jannah......"
The verse relating the muhajirs and the answers is a statement made by God. There is no room for selective interpretation and no circumstances. In the verse relating the to parents it says "if they make you do shirk then...". See the conditional "IF"? There is no conditional on the verse stating that the muhajirs and the ansar are promised Jannah, nor is there one calling the companions the greatest nation to arise from mankind...
I hope you can open your mind to see the difference.


Edited by - Magdi on 02/22/2004 00:19:39

[Magdi]

"Shora belongs to Mohajer and Ansar, so if they gather around a person and appoint him as their Imam this is to the satisfaction of Allah"
This statment also proves that Ali was not appointed by the Prophet nor by God. Here even Ali acknowledges that the Khalifa is to be elected by the people.

[mm_ca04]

By the way, as Muslims, Allah has given us a name by which he wants us to call him. And He doesn't want us to call Him God, you can call Him Allah...

And besides, Sayidina Ali (RadiallahuAnhu) made beyat at the hands of the three Khalifs before him, and he was not forced to do so. And under all three Khalifs his advice was requested on many matters. Why did he support them, if they were unjust as you make them out to be? I understand that you do not like the first three Khalifs, but you do have a love of Sayidina Ali (RadiallahuAnhu), correct? Then, why do you not love whom he loves?

Wasalaam

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Allah is the Greatest.

[ALIALIALI]

MAGDI O MAGDI.... read master minds post again, and see what he said and THEN read my post again...

ALI HASSAN

[Magdi]

I did, now can you address my points please?

[ALIALIALI]

MM sources....shia ones ... that he loved the three caliphs.....
besides...how do justfy the actions of hazrat omar...i have provided you the sources from your books..huh! :)

ALI HASSAN

[Magdi]

ALIALIALI
Are you going to answer the my points or not?

[mm_ca04]

It was out of your own choice that you gave us Sunni quotes. So it is my choice to give Sunni quotes.. :)
And Answering-Ansar.org is not Sunni...

About Sayidina Umar (RA), Sayidina Ali said: Sayidina Umar's (RA) army the army of Allaah through which Islaam became stronger.

Sayidina Ali married the mother of Muhammed ibn Abi Bakr to look after his upbringing. If he had disliked Sayidina Abu Bakr (RA), why did he take Sayidina Abu Bakr's (RA) son under his care?

To Sayidina Uthmaan (RA) he once said "You are more closer to Nabi (Sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) because you have been blessed by marrying two of his daughters". Not only did he say this, but when the house Sayidina Uthmaan was under siege, he had sent his sons Sayidina Hasan and Husain (RA) to guard the house of Sayidina Uthmaan (RA).

Before Nabi's (SAW) demise when he asked for a pen and paper, Sayidina Umar (RA) did not do so seeing the condition of Nabi (SAW) and Sayidina Ali (RA) also did not bring the pen and paper supporting Sayidina Umar's (RA) reasoning. Why did he do this, if he did not like Sayidina Umar (RA)?

And if Sayidina Uthmaan (RA) was such a bad person, why did Rasulullah (SAW) say that if he had 100 daughters he would have given them all in marriage one after the other to Sayidina Uthman (RA)?

I know that this won't be good enough, but oh well... Thats not my problem... If you want to believe that these Sunni quotes are incorrect, then that also leaves me to believe that the Shia quotes are incorrect, thus there would be no reason for me to really use them. ;)

Wasalaam

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Allah is the Greatest.

[ALIALIALI]

mr magdi, which points? my humble suggestion...go and read the first thread of this post.
and for mm:
you accept sunni books, that is you believe in the bukhari and muslim etc.. but on the other hand we dont...got it??

we believe in the holy quran and nehjulbalahga, so if you want to proove any point, raise it from these books, like mastermind did...

as far as your fabricated questions *** answers are concerned, go and read the first part of this topic...or go answering-insar.org...

once again u didnt provide any shia sources for ur fabricated hadithes.

well, i must admit that there is no point discussing these critical issues with you two in particular. you dont have the background of this topic..atleast read the previous thread.


ALI HASSAN

[mastermind]

COMMENT ON ALIS POST

Ali Stated:

it has been said in the quran to obey your parents. agree.?
so if you dont obey your parents, then that means that you are disobeying Allah and your parents. agree?

but what if you parents order you to inazaobillah burn the holy book.
then what will you do. will you obey them and subsequently obey what is said in the Quran??
ponder over it..the answer to your GENERAL verses IS IN IT.

REPLY:

Brother, for your kind information, in Qur'an we are ordered to be kind and good to parents because they are the medium through whom we came to this beautiful world of Allah and it is our parents who face all the hardship during our childhood , this is the reason why Allah Al-mighty (swt)stresses so much on Parent and Children relations and want us to be kind and good to Parents.
As far as the obediance is concerned,it is only for Allah Al-mighty(swt) and his Prophets.We are ordered by Allah (swt) to show unconditional obediance to him and his Prophets.
According to Shariah(Islamic Law), we should be good and kind to Parents and should full fill their wishes but only if their wishes are in accordance with the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh) and we are also permitted to obey them if their request or demand is not against the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet(pbuh).
We also have to obey our Parents but the only difference is that Allah and his Prophets obedience is unconditional and Parents obediance is conditional.
I know what was your point brother, your indication was directly to the first three Caliphes who according to your beliefs,were not rightly guided personalities and their characters was unacceptable.
But before making me ponder over your post, i would like to again draw your attention towards the 2 verses of the Qur'an which i quoted in my previous post.

"Those who emigrated and were driven out of their homes, who suffered in My cause, who fight and were slain - will most certainly blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into gardens beneath which rivers flow. A reward from Allah; and with Allah is the best of 'reward (Al-imraan 3: 195)".

their is another verse from the Qur'an which states:

"And the early pioneers (_as_saabiqun_al_awwalun_) - the Muhajirin and the Ansar and those who follow them in good: Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with him. And He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to dwell therein, forever. (at-Tawbah 9: 100)"

As i have mentioned before, all the Prominent and Great Islamic Scholars agree with the fact that these verses of the Qur'an refers to the emigrants(muhajirin) who migrated from Makkah to Medinah which included Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra), Umar(Ra) and Usman(Ra).

We muslims believe that Allah is Omniscient, and he knows about everything including future.

Keeping your opinion and the above verses in view, if you think that Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra),Umar(ra) and Usman(ra) changed after the demise of Prophet(pbuh) and mistread the beloved and respected family of Prophet(pbuh), than why did Allah promise to grant them Paradise?
Didnt Allah knew that the first three Caliphes will change after the demise of Prophet(pbuh)? if he knew than why did he say that he is pleased with all those who follow the Muhajirin(which included the first three Caliphes) and has prepared for them gardens in the Heaven?
Isnt your claim indirectly against the Supremacy and Ominiscience of Allah?

Please ponder over it.........


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

Ali stated:

and about the one he quoted from nehjulbalagha...u ppl didnt get this..
Hazrat Ali is writing this letter to Mowaiyya, he is saying that
even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. got it??

he is not saying that he is accepting the caliphate of the first two calpihs, but saying that, even accoding to them, his caliphate is justified. to press mowiyya that there is no point not accepting him as the caliph. i hope its clear.

comment:

Brother, we do know that this letter no. 6 from Nehajul Balagha was the messege from Hazrat Ali(ra) to Muwaiya(ra) during the election period and the reason why Hazrat Ali(ra) wrote this letter to Muwaiyah(ra) was because he was not present their in Medinah and it was imperative to inform him about the appointment of the Caliphate since he was one of the most prominent Companions of Prophet(pbuh).
No sensible and educatd person would ever interpret this letter the way of you have done it Ali. Even your most recognized and prominent Scholars donot interpret their sources the way common shias do.
Why do you think that he needs to justify his Caliphate by giving baya to Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra) and Umar(Ra) inspite of knowing that he was more capable ,knowledgable and independant?
Giving Baya is the general and Islamical method of accepting someone as your leader(Caliph).
If you want i can eleborate on this in the future but due to shortage of time, iam ending my post for today.
























Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

Ali stated:

and about the one he quoted from nehjulbalagha...u ppl didnt get this..
Hazrat Ali is writing this letter to Mowaiyya, he is saying that
even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. got it??

he is not saying that he is accepting the caliphate of the first two calpihs, but saying that, even accoding to them, his caliphate is justified. to press mowiyya that there is no point not accepting him as the caliph. i hope its clear.

comment:

Brother, we do know that this letter no. 6 from Nehajul Balagha was the messege from Hazrat Ali(ra) to Muwaiya(ra) during the election period and the reason why Hazrat Ali(ra) wrote this letter to Muwaiyah(ra) was because he was not present their in Medinah and it was imperative to inform him about the appointment of the Caliphate since he was one of the most prominent Companions of Prophet(pbuh).
No sensible and educatd person would ever interpret this letter the way of you have done it Ali. Even your most recognized and prominent Scholars donot interpret their sources the way common shias do.
Why do you think that he needs to justify his Caliphate by giving baya to Hazrat Abu Bakr(Ra) and Umar(Ra) inspite of knowing that he was more capable ,knowledgable and independant?
Giving Baya is the general and Islamical method of accepting someone as your leader(Caliph).

Nehajul Balagha is the book which contains collections of the sermons and letters attributed to Hazrat Ali(Ra), if you want i can also present my arguments from shia sources of hadiths.

If you want i can eleborate on this in the future but due to shortage of time, iam ending my post for today.
























Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

Edited by - mastermind on 02/22/2004 11:10:28

Edited by - mastermind on 02/22/2004 11:14:38

[mastermind]

Ali,

you shias claim to be the only true followers of Islam ,unlike us who are the followers of the enemies of the Prophet(pbuh)and his family.
And you are the only one who stayed with the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh).
I want you to please prove how we sunni's have deviated from the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh)?

if you explicitly and rationally prove that we sunnis have deviated from the true teachings of Islam in the light of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh), than i will embrace Shism?

Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

Edited by - mastermind on 02/22/2004 11:32:54

[mm_ca04]

All I have to say is that when mastermind did give you something from your own Shia sources, you then told him that he did not fully understand what the letter meant. If I show you something you will not like from your sources you will refute, so why should I bother?

if you explicitly and rationally prove that we sunnis have deviated from the true teachings of Islam in the light of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh), than i will embrace Shism?

I totally agree with mastermind on the above.

Wasalaam.

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Allah is the Greatest.

[mastermind]

mm_c40

I can also use other shia sources in my arguments but i want this perticular discussion to continue till we reach any conclusion .

If we dont reach any conclusion or when it will be required, i will definitely use other shia sources.

Iam quiet surprized to see that Ali only wants us to present Nehajul Balagha and Qur'an in our argument although their are several other shia sources of hadith which i think are also important.

Nehajul Balagha is actually the collection of the letters and sermons
attributed to Hazrat Ali(Ra) which is a mixture of false and truth.

In answering-ansar.org , shias have presented their arguments in articles to refute our position ,but unfortunately they have not presented any real or solid arguments to prove us wrong.
What they actually do is they use Jadal(a part of Science of logic)
in their argument to confuse the otherside without presenting any solid or real refutation.

Inshallah when i will get time , i will discuss those articles of answering-ansar.org in this forum .

Allah Hafiz


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

one more question for Ali


you said:

and about the one he quoted from nehjulbalagha...u ppl didnt get this..
Hazrat Ali is writing this letter to Mowaiyya, he is saying that
even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. got it??

comment:

When Prophet(pbuh) alreadly declared the Imamate of Hazrat Ali(ra)at Ghadeer Khum infront of Majority of People, and Prophets(pbuh) declaration was no doubt lawful and had Divine Back from Allah, than why do you think Hazrat Ali(ra) had to remind again about lawfulness of his Caliphate to Mowaiya? werent people aware that what ever Prophet(pbuh) say and declares is lawful and perfect?


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

Ali

I hope you are fine and in good health, i havent seen you for a long time especially in this thread.
Will my questions remain unanswered forever?




Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[Nadeem]

Assalam o alaikum to all.I am Nadeem and have just joined the forum after reading mastermind's impressive refutation of shia falsehood.
I had some heated dabate with shias in al-hewar.com and realised that they use a lot of trickery when they are caught out and try to confuse everybody by deliberately misquoting you.

I hope that Allah(swt) allows their narrow minds to open up to the truth,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Assalam o alaikum to all,I am Nadeem and have just joined the forum after reading masremind's refutation of the shia falsehood.
I had some heated debate with some shias in al-hewar.com and realised the trickery they resort to when caught out.

I hope Allah(swt) opens up their narrow minds to the truth,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

"Tafsir al-Kabir", by Fakhr al-Razi who is a leading Sunni scholar with multiple specialties in Tafsir, Fiqh, and theology. This tradition can also be found in other Sunni commentary books of Quran, "Tafsir al-Kashshaf," written by al-Zamakhshari, as well as "Tafsir al-Tha'labi." :

The Messenger of Allah said:
He who dies with love of the family of Muhammad is a Martyr.
And behold! He who dies with love of the family of Muhammad is forgiven.
And more! The one who dies with love of the family of Muhammad is died repented.
Lo! He who dies with love of the family of Muhammad is died as a believer with a COMPLETE belief.
And no doubt! The one who dies with love of the family of Muhammad, the angle of death gives him the glad tiding of Paradise, and so do the two angels who question him (Munkar & Nakeer).
And verily he who dies with love of the family of Muhammad, will be led toward the Paradise as the bride is led to the house of her husband.
Behold! And he who dies with love of the family of Muhammad, for him there will open two gates in his grave toward the Paradise.
Lo! And the one who dies with love of the family of Muhammad, Allah will make his grave a sacred place of visit for the angels of mercy.
And verily he who dies with love of the family of Muhammad, has died on Sunnah.
And no doubt! The one who dies with the HATE of the family of Muhammad, will arrive in the day of judgment while it is printed on his forehead that he is desperate from the Mercy of Allah.
Behold! He who dies with the HATE of the family of Muhammad, has died unbeliever.
And verily he who dies with the HATE of the family of Muhammad, will never hear the smell of Paradise.

Sunni references:

Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din Muhammad Ibn Umar al-Razi, Pub. in Egypt (1357/1938), under commentary of verse 42:23, Part 27, pp. 165-166.
Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari
Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Tha'labi
--------------------
Fakhr al-Razi and others mentioned the above tradition under the commentary of the following verse of Quran, in which Allah tell his Messenger:

"(O Prophet) tell (people) I don't ask you any wage (in return for my prophethood) except to love my near kin. And if anyone earns any good We shall give Him an increase of good (in return for it)" (Quran 42:23).

It has been widely reported by the Sunni commentators of the Holy Quran that:

Ibn Abbas narrated: When the above verse (42:23) was revealed, the companions asked: "O' the Messenger of Allah! Who are those near kin whose love Allah has made obligatory for us?" Upon that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Ali, Fatimah, and their two sons." He (PBUH&HF) repeated this sentence thrice.
Sunni references:

Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, Part 27, pp 165-166
Tafsir al-Tha'labi, under the commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran
Tafsir al-Tabari, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, under verse 42:23
Tafsir al-Qurtubi, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran
Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, under commentary of verse 42:23
Tafsir al-Baidhawi, under the commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran
Tafsir al-Kalbi, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran
al-Madarik, in connection with verse 42:23
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p25
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal,
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p259
Shawahid al-Tanzeel, Hakim Hasakani, al-Hanafi, v2, p132
Many others such as Ibn Abi Hatam, al-Tabarani, etc.
Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF) continued:

"Verily Allah has dedicated my wage (of prophethood) to love of my Ahlul-Bayt, and I shall question you about it on the day of judgment."
Sunni references:

Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p26
al-Sirah, by al-Mala
In another tradition, we read:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I advice you to be kind to my Ahlul-Bayt for verily I will dispute you about them on the day of Judgment, and whoever I dispute him shall enter the Fire." He (PBUH&HF) also said: "One who regards me by regarding my Ahlul-Bayt, he has taken a promise from Allah (to enter the Paradise)."
Sunni references:

al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd
al-Sirah, by al-Mala
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p231
Furthermore, al-Kateeb and Ibn Hajar narrated on the authority of Anas Ibn Malik saying:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The title of the Book (Saheefah) of believer is love of Ali Ibn Abi Talib."
Sunni references:

Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2, p193
In the above tradition, "The Book of believer" refers to the way a believer conducts the affairs, i.e., his daily life, and his diary.

On the commentary of the Quranic verse: "Lo! those who believe and do good, the Beneficent will appoint for them love (Quran 19:96)," al-Hafidh al-Salafi wrote: Muhammad Ibn Hanafiyyah said: "There will not be a believer unless in whose heart love of Ali and his family exists." In this connection, al-Bayhaqi, Abu al-Shaikh, and al-Daylami reported that the Messenger of Allah said: "A servant (of God) will not be a (true) believer unless he loves me more than his own soul, and loves my progeny more than his own soul and his own family." See al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 261-262 quoted from al-Hafidh al-Salafi, al-Bayhaqi, Abu al-Shaikh, and al-Daylami).

al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad narrated:

The Messenger of Allah said: "He who loves me and loves these two: al-Hasan and al-Husain, and loves their father and mother, he will be with me in Paradise."
Sunni reference:

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p641
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, on the authority of Imam Ali (AS)
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p693, Tradition #1185
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p264
It is also narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah said: "Verily the prosperous and the only prosperous and the true prosperous is he who loves Ali in his lifetime and in his hereafter."
Sunni reference:

Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p658, Tradition #1121
al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v3, p176
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p132
Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, v2, p429
Sunni scholars also narrated that Imam al-Hasan Ibn Ali (AS) said the following in a discourse which he delivered on the martyrdom of Imam Ali:

"... I am among Ahlul-Bayt whom Allah has made their love obligatory for any Muslim when He revealed to His Prophet (PBUH&HF): "Say: I don't ask you any wage except to love my near kin. And if anyone earns any good We shall give Him an increase of good (Quran 42:23)." Thus earn the good deed through loving us Ahlul-Bayt."
Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, "Chapter of understanding the virtues of companions," v3, p172
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p259
Many others such as al-Bazzar, al-Tabarani, etc.
Furthermore, it is narrated from Ibn Abbas:

Ibn Abbas said: "The good deed in the verse: 'And if anyone earns any good We shall give Him an increase of good (Quran 42:23)' is the love of family (Aal) of the Muhammad (PBUH&HF)."
Sunni references:

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, as mentioned in:
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p259
Sunni traditionists also narrated that:

After the murder of al-Husain when his family were taken prisoners and were moved to Damascus, a man in the city (who among others was looking at the passing of prisoners in the city) said to Zain al-Abideen (Imam Ali Ibn al-Husain) that "Praise be to Allah who destroyed you and made you helpless and cut the root of sedition." On that, Zain al-Abideen said: "Didn't you read 'Tell I don't ask you any wage except to love my near kin'?" The man answered: "Are you those?" He (Zain al-Abideen) said: "Yes."
Sunni references:

Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p112, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran
al-Tabarani, as mentioned in:
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p259

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

ive been reading this thread, and what is obvious is that pasting traditions doesnt get u anywhere, shia dont believe in sahih and oposite. so lets use the Quran instead!

the main diffence which comes first is not imam ali's(as) wilayat, but the nature of the Prophet, as the shias believe that he was infallible, sorting this question will naturally lead us to the wilayat of imam ali(as)(Quran and ghadir).
reading different forums, it has struck me that muslims use and almost believe more in hadith then the Quran! so lets stick to the Quran!
from now on ill base my discussion on the Holy Quran.

this is for mastermind:
And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph.9:100

This verse clearly proclaims the equality of muhajirs and ansar in general sense. The preference given to one individual over another by Allah or the Holy Prophet was due to the degree of submission to Allah and taqwa (piety). So the argument put forward by Umar bin Khattab at the time of deciding the issue of taking hold of the reins of power in the conference hall of Saqifa bani Sa-ada by reciting this verse without wa after ansar to establish the superiority of muhajirs over ansar (if wa is dropped it means the ansar should obey or follow the muhajirs) was unislamic or contrary to the teachings of the Quran. It is mentioned in Sahih Bukhari that when Obay ibn Ka-ab pointed out this omission Umar replied that he always thought this verse to be a proof of the muhajir's superiority over the ansar.

This verse and other verses like it in praise of the companions of the Holy Prophet, whether muhajirs or ansar, are applicable only to those who were sincere in faith. The hypocrites, who were also "companions" (sahabah) as per its definition laid down by the Muslim scholars, cannot be accepted as those praised by the Quran. So to say that all the companions, even the deserters, were true believers is illogical and contrary to historical facts.

All the commentators unanimously agree that "the first of the foremost" among women was Khadijah, wife of the Holy Prophet, and among men was Ali ibn abi Talib.

Hakim Nayshapuri, in his Mustadrak Alal Sahihayn, writes on page 22 of kitab al Ma-rafat:

"There is no difference of opinion among the historians that Ali ibn abi Talib was the first Muslim."

Ibn Abd al Bar, Qartabi, Suyuti, Tabarani, Bayhaqi and others also have confirmed it.

Please refer to the event of dawat dhil ashirah on page 4. Among others refer to Tarikh Tabari vol. 2, page 63, for authenticity of the tradition, according to which Ali was the first Muslim, and his faith was not only accepted by the Holy Prophet but also he was declared by him, whose words were always revelation revealed (Najm: 4), to be his brother, lieutenant and successor-and on that day obedience to him was made obligatory by the Holy Prophet for all the believers. Whosoever raises the issue of his age either does not know that whomsoever Allah wills He makes him His representative even if he is a baby in the cradle (Ali Imran: 46-Isa was a messenger of Allah in the cradle just as he was a messenger of Allah in maturity), or with ulterior motives, wants to introduce some one else as the first Muslim.



malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/18/2004 20:52:50

[IronEagle]

The Rightly-Guided Caliphs_Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq

Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, `Atiq ibn Abi Quhafa, Shaykh al-Islam, `Abd Allah ibn `Uthman ibn `Amir al-Qurashi al-Taymi (d. 13), the Prophet’s intimate friend after Allah, exclusive companion at the Prophet’s Basin (hawd) and in the Cave, greatest supporter, closest confidant, first spiritual inheritor, first of the men who believed in him and the only one who did so unhesitatingly, first of his four Rightly-Guided successors, first of the ten promised Paradise, and first of the Prophet’s Community to enter Paradise.

Alone among the Companions, Abu Bakr repeatedly led the Community in prayer in the lifetime of the Prophet. The latter used to call him by his patronyms of Abu Bakr and Ibn Abi Quhafa, and he named him with the attributes "The Most Truthful" (al-Siddîq) and "Allah’s Freedman From the Fire" (`Atîq Allâh min al-nâr). When the Quraysh confronted the Prophet after the Night Journey, they turned to Abu Bakr and said: "Do you believe what he said, that he went last night to the Hallowed House and came back before morning?" He replied: "If he said it, then I believe him, yes, and I do believe him regarding what is farther than that. I believe the news of heaven he brings, whether in the space of a morning or in that of an evening journey." Because of this Abu Bakr was named al-Siddîq: the Very Truthful, the One Who Never Lies.

Among the Companions who narrated from him: Anas, `A’isha, Jabir, Abu Hurayra, the four `Abd Allahs (Ibn `Abbas, Ibn Mas`ud, Ibn `Umar, Ibn `Amr), `Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, `Umar, `Uthman, and `Ali. The latter is one of the narrators of the Prophet’s hadith cited by Abu Bakr: "We [Prophets] do not leave anything as inheritance. What we leave behind is charity (sadaqa)."

`Umar said: "Abu Bakr’s faith outweighs the faith of the entire Umma." This is confirmed by the following hadith: The Prophet asked: "Did any of you see anything in his dream?" A man said to the Prophet: "O Messenger of Allah, I saw in my dream as if a balance came down from the heaven in which you were weighed against Abu Bakr and outweighed him, then Abu Bakr was weighed against `Umar and outweighed him, then `Umar was weighed against `Uthman and outweighed him, then the balance was raised up." This displeased the Prophet who said: "Successorship of prophethood (khilâfa nubuwwa)! Then Allah shall give kingship to whomever He will." `Umar also said: "The best of this Community after its Prophet is Abu Bakr." `Ali named him and `Umar the Shaykh al-Islam of the Community and said: "The best of this Community after its Prophet are Abu Bakr and `Umar," "The most courageous of people is Abu Bakr," and "The greatest in reward among people for the volumes of the Qur’an is Abu Bakr, for he was the first of those who gathered the Qur’an between two covers." He was also the first to name it mushaf.

Abu Bakr’s high rank is indicated, among other signs, by the fact that to deny his Companionship to the Prophet entails disbelief (kufr), unlike the denial of the Companionship of `Umar, `Uthman, and `Ali to the Prophet. This is due to the mention of this companionship in the verse: "The second of two when the two were in the cave, and he said unto his companion: Grieve not" (9:40) which refers, by Consensus, to the Prophet and Abu Bakr. Allah further praised him above the rest by saying: "Those who spent and fought before the victory are not upon a level (with the rest of you)." (57:10)

The Prophet confirmed his high rank in many of his sayings, among them:

"Allah gave one of His servants a choice between this world and what He has with Him, and that servant chose what Allah has with Him." Abu Bakr wept profusely and we wondered why he wept, since the Prophet had told of a servant that was given a choice. The Prophet himself was that servant, as Abu Bakr later told us. The Prophet continued: "Among those most dedicated to me in his companionship and property is Abu Bakr. If I were to take an intimate friend other than my Lord, I would take Abu Bakr. But what binds us is the brotherhood of Islam and its love. Let no door [of the Prophet’s mosque] remain open except Abu Bakr’s."

"I am excused, before each of my friends, of any intimate friendship with anyone. But if I were to take an intimate friend, I would take Ibn Abi Quhafa as my intimate friend. Verily, your Companion is the intimate friend of Allah!"

"You [Abu Bakr] are my companion at the Basin and my companion in the Cave."

"Call Abu Bakr and his son so that I will put something down in writing, for I fear lest someone ambitious forward a claim, and Allah and the believers refuse anyone other than Abu Bakr."

`Amr ibn al-`As asked: "O Messenger of Allah, who is the most beloved of all men to you?" He replied: "Abu Bakr."

"It is impermissible for a people among whom is Abu Bakr, to be led by other than him."

"Take for your leaders those who come after me: Abu Bakr and `Umar."

"O`Ali! Abu Bakr and `Umar are the leaders of the mature inhabitants of Paradise and its youth among the first and the last, except for Prophets and Messengers."

"The sun never rose nor set over anyone better than Abu Bakr."

"The Prophet used to hold nightly conversations with Abu Bakr in the latter’s house, discussing the affairs of Muslims, and I [`Umar] was present with them."

`Umar was angered by Abu Bakr one day and left him in anger. Abu Bakr followed after him, asking his forgiveness, but `Umar refused and shut his door in his face. Abu Bakr then went to the Prophet and took hold of his garment until his knee showed. The Prophet said: "Your companion has been arguing!" Abu Bakr greeted him and said: "There was a dispute between me and `Umar, then I felt remorse and asked him to forgive me but he would not, so I came to you." The Prophet said, repeating three times: "Allah forgives you, O Abu Bakr! Allah forgives you, O Abu Bakr! Allah forgives you, O Abu Bakr!" Then `Umar felt remorse and went asking for Abu Bakr at his house without finding him. He came to the Prophet and greeted him, but the Prophet’s face changed with displeasure. Seeing this, Abu Bakr sat up on his knees in fear before the Prophet, saying twice: "O Messenger of Allah! I am the one who trangressed. O Messenger of Allah! I am the one who transgressed." The Prophet said to the people: "Allah sent me to you and you all said: ‘You are lying!’ But Abu Bakr said: ‘He said the truth.’ Abu Bakr gave me solace with his person and property. Will you leave my companion alone once and for all? Will you leave my companion alone once and for all?!" After this Abu Bakr was never harmed again.

"Jibril came to me, took me by the hand, and showed me the gate through which my Community shall enter Paradise." Abu Bakr said: "Would that I were with you to see it!" The Prophet said: "Did you not know? You will be the first of all my Community to enter it."

Al-Suyuti relates through Ibn Sa`d’s report from `A’isha her description of Abu Bakr: "He was a man with fair skin, thin, emaciated, with a sparse beard, a slightly hunched frame, sunken eyes and protruding forehead, and the bases of his fingers were hairless." He was the foremost genealogist of the Quraysh and the best of them at interpreting dreams after the Prophet according to Ibn Sirin. `A’isha related that both he and `Uthman had relinquished drinking wine even in the Time of Ignorance. His caliphate lasted two years and three months in which he opened up the lands of Syria and Iraq for the Muslims, suppressed apostasy among the Arab tribes, fought the pseudo-Prophets al-Aswad al-`Ansi, Tulayha al-Asadi who recanted and declared his prophethood in Najd, and Musaylima the Liar who was killed in the devastating battle of al-Yamama.

Imam al-Nawawi pointed out that Abu Bakr’s genealogical tree alone regroups four successive generations of Companions of the Prophet: his father Abu Quhafa, himself, his daughter Asma’, and her son `Abd Allah, in addition to Abu Bakr’s son `Abd al-Rahman and his grandson Abu `Atiq. Nawawi states that only one hundred and forty-two hadiths of the Prophet are narrated from Abu Bakr. He comments: "The reason for this scarcity, despite the seniority of his companionship to the Prophet, is that his death pre-dated the dissemination of hadiths and the endeavor of the Followers to hear, gather, and preserve them." Among Abu Bakr’s sayings: "Whoever fights his ego for Allah’s sake, Allah will protect Him against what He hates."

Main sources: Al-Nawawi, Tahdhib al-Asma’ wa al-Lughat 2:181-182; Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:62-72 #1; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1-2:467-508 #2.

[IronEagle]

The Rightly-Guided Caliphs_Umar ibn al-Khattab

`Umar ibn al-Khattab ibn Nufayl ibn `Abd al-`Uzza ibn Rayyah, Shaykh al-Islam, Amir al-Mu’minin, Abu Hafs al-Qurashi al-`Adawi al-Faruq (d. 23). Among the Companions who narrated from him: `Ali, Ibn Mas`ud, Ibn `Abbas, Abu Hurayra, and especially his son Ibn `Umar upon whose narrations Malik relied in his Muwatta’. He was described as fair-skinned with some reddishness, tall with a large build, fast-paced, and a skilled fighter and horseman. He embraced Islam after having fought it, in the year 6 of the Prophethood, at age twenty-seven. This was the result of the Prophet’s explicit supplication: "O Allah! Strengthen Islam with `Umar ibn al-Khattab." In his time Islam entered Egypt, Syria, Sijistan, Persia, and other regions. He died a martyr, stabbed in the back while at prayer by a Sabean or Zoroastrian slave, at sixty-six years of age.

`Umar al-Faruq was second only to Abu Bakr al-Siddiq in closeness to and approval from the Prophet. The latter said: "I have two ministers from the inhabitants of the heaven and two ministers from the inhabitants of the earth. The former are Jibril and Mika’il, and the latter are Abu Bakr and `Umar." He said of the latter: "These two are [my] hearing and eyesight" and instructed the Companions: "Follow those that come after me: Abu Bakr and `Umar."

`Umar was given the gift of true inspiration which is the characteristic of Allah’s Friends named kashf or "unveiling." The Prophet said: "In the nations long before you were people who were spoken to [by the angels] although they were not prophets. If there is anyone of them in my Community, truly it is `Umar ibn al-Khattab." This narration is elucidated by the two narrations whereby "Allah has engraved truth on the tongue of `Umar and his heart" and "If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar." Al-Tirmidhi said that according to Ibn `Uyayna "spoken to" (muhaddathûn) means "made to understand" (mufahhamûn), while in his narration Muslim added: "Ibn Wahb explained ‘spoken to’ as ‘inspired’ (mulham)." This is the majority’s opinion according to Ibn Hajar who said: "‘Spoken to’ means ‘by the angels’." Al-Nawawi and Ibn Hajar said respectively in Sharh Sahih Muslim and Fath al-Bari:

The scholars have differed concerning "spoken to." Ibn Wahb said it meant "inspired" (mulham). It was said also: "Those who are right, and when they give an opinion it is as if they were spoken to, and then they give their opinion. It was said also: "The angels speak to them..." Bukhari said: "Truth comes from their tongues." This hadith contains a confirmation of the miracles of the saints (karâmât al-awliya).

The one among [Muslims] who is "spoken to," if his existence is ascertained, what befalls him is not used as basis for a legal judgment, rather he is obliged to evaluate it with the Qur’an, and if it conforms to it or to the Sunna, he acts upon it, otherwise he leaves it.

A claim was raised that since the hadith states "If there is anyone in my Umma, it is `Umar," it must follow that at most the number of such inspired people is at most one, namely `Umar. Ibn Hajar replied to this with the reminder that it is wrong to think that other Communities had many but this Community only one. Thus what is meant by the hadith is the perfection of the quality of ilhâm û inspiration û in `Umar, not its lack in other Muslims, and Allah knows best.

`Umar also had the unique distinction of having his views confirmed by the revelation in the Holy Qur’an: He said three things which were confirmed by subsequent revelations:

I concurred with my Lord in three matters: I said to the Prophet: "O Messenger of Allah! Why do we not pray behind Ibrahim’s Station?" Whereupon was revealed the verse: ". . . Take as your place of worship the place where Ibrahim stood (to pray). . ." (2:125); I said: "O Messenger of Allah! You should order your wives to cover because both the chaste and the wicked go in to see them," whereupon was revealed the verse: "... And when you ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. . ." (33:53) Then the Prophet’s wives banded together in their jealousy over him, so I said to them: "It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him instead wives better than you, [submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, inclined to fasting, widows and maids]." (67:5) Whereupon was revealed that verse.

He was unique in his power of separating truth from falsehood and the Prophet conferred on him the title of al-Fârûq, saying: "In truth, the devil certainly parts ways with (layafruqu min) `Umar." He memorized Sura al-Baqara in twelve years, and when he had learned it completely he slaughtered a camel. Imam Malik stated that on his suggestion the words "I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" were added to the adhân, and likewise the words "Prayer is better than Sleep" to the adhân for the dawn prayer. However, the more correct report is that it is Bilal who first inserted the latter formula in the call to the dawn prayer and the Prophet retained it.

`Umar ibn al-Khattab was the first Muslim ruler to establish a Public Treasury; the first Muslim ruler to levy a customs duty named `ushr; the first Muslim ruler to organize a census; the first Muslim ruler to strike coins; the first Muslim ruler to organize a system of canals for irrigation; and the first Muslim ruler to formally organize provinces, cities, and districts. He established the system of guest-houses and rest-houses on major routes to and from major cities. He established schools throughout the land and allocated liberal salaries for teachers. He was the first to prohibit mut`a or temporary marriage, according to the Prophet’s earlier prohibition. He was the first to place the law of inheritance on a firm basis. He was the first to establish trusts, and the first ruler in history to separate the judiciary from the executive.

He took pains to provide effective and speedy justice for the people. He set up an effective system of judicial administration under which justice was administered according to the principles of Islam. Qadis or judges were appointed at all administrative levels for the administration of justice and were chosen for their integrity and learning in Islamic law. High salaries were paid to them and they were appointed from the among the wealthy and those of high social standing so as not to be influenced by the social position of any litigants. The qadis were not allowed to engage in trade.

From time to time, `Umar used to issue firmans or edicts laying down the principles for the administration of justice. One of his firmans read:

Glory to Allah! Verily Justice is an important obligation to Allah and to man. You have been charged with this responsibility. Discharge this responsibility so that you may win the approbation of Allah and the good will of the people. Treat the people equally in your presence, and in your decisions, so that the weak despair not of justice, and the high-placed harbor no hope of favoritism. The onus of proof lies on the plaintiff, while the party who denies must do so on oath. Compromise is permissible, provided that it does not turn the unlawful into something lawful, and the lawful into something unlawful. Let nothing prevent you from changing your previous decision if after consideration you feel that the previous decision was incorrect. When you are in doubt about a question and find nothing concerning it in the Qur’an or the Sunna of the Prophet, ponder the question over and over again. Ponder over the precedents and analogous cases, and then decide by analogy. A term should be fixed for the person who wants to produce witnesses. If he proves his case, discharge for him his right. Otherwise the suit should be dismissed. All Muslims are trustworthy, except those who have been punished with flogging, those who have borne false witness, or those of doubtful integrity.

One day Abu Musa al-Ash`ari, the governor of Basra at the time, wrote to `Umar complaining that the ordinances, instructions, and letters from the Caliph were undated and therefore gave rise to problems linked to the sequence of their implementation. Because of this and other similar problems of undatedness, `Umar convened an assembly of scholars and advisors to consider the question of calendar reforms. The deliberations of this assembly resulted in the combined opinion that Muslims should have a calendar of their own. The point that was next considered was from when should the new Muslim calendar era begin. Some suggested that the era should begin from the birth of the Prophet while others suggested that it should begin from the time of his death. `Ali suggested that the era should begin from the date the Muslims migrated from Mecca to Madina, and this was agreed upon. The next question considered was the month from which the new era should start. Some suggested that it should start from the month of Rabi` al-Awwal, some from Rajab, others from Ramadan, others from Dhu al-Hijja. `Uthman suggested that the new era should start from the month of Muharram because that was the first month in the Arabic calendar of that time. This was agreed upon. Since the Migration had taken place in the month of Rabi` al-Awwal, two months and eight days after the first of Muharram that year, the date was pushed back by two months and eight days, and the new Hijri calendar began with the first day of Muharram in the year of the Migration rather than from the actual date of the Migration.

`Umar was the first Muslim ruler to levy `ushr, the Customs or Import Duty. It was levied on the goods of the traders of other countries who chose to trade in the Muslim dominions, at up to 10% of the goods imported and on a reciprocal basis. `Ushr was levied in a way to avoid hardships, and only on merchandise meant for sale, not goods imported for consumption or for personal use. Goods valued at two hundred dirhams or less were not subject to `ushr. Instructions were issued to the officials that no personal luggage was to be searched, and `ushr was applied only to goods that were declared as being for the purpose of trade. The rate varied for Muslim and non-Muslim citizens of the Muslim dominions. If the former imported goods for the purpose of trade, they paid a lower rate of `ushr: 2+ % , that is, the same rate as for zakât. Hence, this was regarded as part of the zakât and not as a separate tax. Dhimmis or non-Muslim citizens of the Muslim dominions who imported goods for the purpose of trade paid a `ushr of 5%. In order to avoid double taxation, it was established that if the `ushr had been paid once on imported goods, and then these goods were subsequently taken abroad and then brought back into the Muslim dominions within the same year, no additional `ushr was to be levied on such re-imported goods.

Some among `Umar’s innovations mentioned in Abu Hilal al-`Askari’s Kitab al-Awa’il ("Book of Firsts") and Tabari’s Tarikh:

Establishment of Bayt al-mâl or public treasury.

Establishment of courts of justice and appointment of judges.

The determination of the Hijra calendar which continues to this day.

Assumption of the title of Amîr al-Mu’minîn.

Organization of the War Department.

Putting army reserves on the payroll.

Establishment of the Land Revenue Department.

Survey and assessment of lands.

Census.

Building of Canals.

Founding of the cities of Kufa, Basra, al-Jazira, Fustat, and Musal.

Division of conquered countries into provinces.

Imposition of customs duties.

Taxation of the produce of the sea and appointment of officials for its collection.

Permission to traders of foreign lands to trade in the country.

Organization of jails.

Use of the whip.

Making rounds at night to inquire into the condition of the people.

Organization of the Police Department.

Establishment of military barracks at strategic points.

Distinction of pedigree and non-pedigree horses.

Employment of secret reports and emissaries.

Rest-houses on the way from Mecca to Madina for the comfort of travellers.

Provision for the care and bringing up of foundlings.

Organization of guest-houses in different cities.

The ruling that Arabs, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, could not be made slaves.

Stipends for the poor among the Jews and the Christians.

Establishment of schools.

Stipends for school teachers and public lecturers.

Persuading Abu Bakr to collect the Qur’an and execution of the work under his own care.

Formulation of the principle of qiyâs or judicial analogy.

More exact division of inheritance.

Insertion of the formula "Prayer is better that sleep" in the call to the dawn prayer. However, as stated before, the more correct report is that it is Bilal who first inserted the formula in the call to the dawn prayer and the Prophet retained it.

Ordaining the holding of tarawih prayers in congregation.

Three divorces pronounced at one session declared binding

Provision of the punishment for drunkenness with eighty stripes

Levy of zakât on horses of merchandise

Levy of zakât on the Christians of Bani Taghlab in lieu of jizya

Method of rnaking trusts

Consensus of opinion on four takbîrs in funeral prayers

Organization of sermons in mosques

Giving salaries to imams and mu’adhdhins.

Provision of light in mosques at night

Provision of punishment for writing satires and lampoons

Probibition of the mention of women’s names in lyric poems although the custom was very ancient in Arabia.

`Abd Allah ibn `Isa ibn Abi Layla related: "There were two dark lines in `Umar’s face marked by tears." Al-Hasan al-Basri and Hisham ibn al-Hasan narrated that `Umar sometimes lost consciousness after reciting a verse from the Qur’an, whereupon he would be taken ill and visited for days. Among `Umar’s sayings:

"O Allah! Grant me to die a martyr, and make my death be in your Prophet’s country."

"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."

Anas said: "I heard `Umar say as he was alone behind a wall: ‘By Allah! You shall certainly fear Allah, O son of al-Khattab, or He will punish you!"

Jabir said that he heard `Umar ibn al-Khattab say on the pulpit when he married Umm Kulthum, the daughter of `Ali and Fatima: "Do not disparage me [for marrying a young girl], for I heard the Prophet say: ‘On the Judgment Day every means will be cut off and every lineage severed except my lineage.’" He desired to place himself in the Prophet’s lineage through this marriage due to the precedence of Ahl al-Bayt in the Prophet’s intercession. Umm Kulthum bore him two children, Zayd and Ruqayya.

From `Amir ibn Rabi`a: "I saw `Umar pick up a straw from the ground and say: ‘Would that I were this straw! Would that I were nothing! Would that my mother never bore me!’"

From `Ubayd Allah ibn `Umar ibn Hafs: `Umar was see carrying a slaughtered animal on his back. He was asked why, and he replied: "I was infatuated with myself and wanted to humble myself." Al-Hasan narrated: "`Umar gave a sermon when he was Caliph wearing a waist-wrap patched in twelve places."

As `Umar’s head lay in Ibn `Umar’s lap after his stabbing he said to him: "Lay my cheek on the ground." Then he said: "Woe to me, my mother’s woe to me if my Lord does not grant me mercy!" The next morning al-Miswar woke him for the dawn prayer. `Umar rose saying: "Yes, and there is no part in Islam for whoever leaves prayer." He prayed bleeding from his wounds.

From Malik al-Dar: The people suffered a drought in `Umar’s khilafa, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."

From Mujahid: "We found that the goodness of our lives was patience."

From `Urwa ibn al-Zubayr: "Know that greed is poverty and despair sufficiency. When a man despairs of something, he does without it."

From al-Sha`bi: "By Allah! My heart has softened for Allah’s sake until it became softer than butter, and it has hardened for Allah’s sake until it became harder than stone."

From `Awn ibn `Abd Allah ibn `Utba: "Sit with the Oft-Repentent (al-tawwâbîn), for they are the softest-hearted of people."

From Aslam, `Umar’s freedman: "Be the vessels of the Book and the well-springs of the Science, and ask Allah for your sustenance day by day."

From Abu `Uthman al-Nahdi: "Winter is the treasure of devotees."

From Dawud ibn `Ali: "If a sheep dies on the shore of the Euphrates I fear lest Allah ask me to account for it on the Day of Resurrection."

From Yahya ibn Abi Kathir: "If it were announced from the heaven: ‘O people! You are all entering Paradise except one,’ I would fear to be he; and if it were announced: ‘O people! You are all entering the Fire except one,’ I would hope to be he."

From al-Aswad ibn Hilal al-Muharibi: When `Umar was made Caliph he stood on the pulpit and said: "O people! I am going to invoke Allah, therefore say âmîn. O Allah! I am coarse, so make me soft, and I am stingy, so make me generous, and I am weak, so make me strong."

From `Abd Allah ibn `Umar: "[After `Umar’s death] I saw a palace in my sleep, and was told it belonged to `Umar ibn al-Khattab. Then I saw him come out of it, wearing a cover as if he had just bathed. I said: ‘How did you fare?’ He said: ‘Well, although I would have fallen from my place if I had not found a forgiving Lord.’ Then he asked: ‘How long since I have left you?’ I said: ‘Twelve years.’ He said: ‘I only just finished rendering account.’"

`Umar was the closed door between the Prophet’s Community and the onset of dissension. His death is one of the earliest signs of the Hour. One day he asked Hudhayfa about the "dissension that shall surge like the waves of the sea" according to the Prophet’s own terms. Hudhayfa answered: "You need not worry about it, for between you and it there is a gate closed shut." `Umar said: "Will the gate be opened or broken?" Hudhayfa said: "Broken!" `Umar replied: "That is more appropriate than that it be let open." The narrator [Abu Wa’il] said: "We feared to ask Hudhayfa who was that gate, so we sent Masruq to ask him and he said: That gate was `Umar."


Main sources: Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:73-92; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1/2:509-565 #3; Shibli Nu`mani, `Umar The Great 2:336-338.

[IronEagle]

The Rightly-Guided Caliphs_Uthman ibn `Affan

`Uthman ibn `Affan ibn Abi al-`As ibn Umayya ibn `Abd Shams, Abu `Amr, Abu `Abd Allah, Abu Layla al-Qurashi al-Umawi (d. 35), the Prophet’s Friend, Amîr al-Mu’minîn, the third of the four Rightly-Guided Successors of the Prophet and third of the Ten promised Paradise. He is named Dhu al-Nûrayn or "Possessing Two Lights," a reference to his marriage with two daughters of the Prophet, Ruqayya then Umm Kulthum. He is among those who emigrated twice: once to Abyssinia, and again to Madina. He gathered together the Qur’an which he had read in its entirety before the Prophet. During his tenure as Caliph, Armenia, Caucasia, Khurasan, Kirman, Sijistan, Cyprus, and much of North Africa were added to the dominions of Islam. He related 146 hadiths from the Prophet. Among the Companions who narrated from him in the Nine Books are Anas, Abu Hurayra, Jundub, `Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, `Abd Allah ibn `Abbas, `Abd Allah ibn `Umar. A host of prominent Followers narrated from him, among them al-Zuhri, Ibn al-Musayyib, al-Dahhak, and `Alqama.

`Uthman was extremely wealthy and generous. When he heard the Prophet say: "Whoever equips the army of al-`Usra, Paradise is for him," he brought the Prophet a thousand gold dinars which he poured into his lap. The Prophet picked them up with his hand and said repeatedly: "Nothing shall harm `Uthman after what he did today." It is also narrated that equipped the army of al-`Usra with seven hundred ounces of gold, or seven hundred and fifty camels and fifty horses.

The Prophet said: "The most compassionate of my Community towards my Community is Abu Bakr; the staunchest in Allah’s Religion is `Umar; and the most truthful in his modesty is `Uthman." The pebbles were heard by Abu Dharr glorifying Allah in the hands of the Prophet, Abu Bakr, `Umar, and `Uthman. The Prophet particularly praised `Uthman for his modesty and said: "Shall I not feel bashful before a man when even the angels feel bashful before him?"

He was humble and was seen at the time of his caliphate sleeping alone in the mosque, wrapped in a blanket with no one around him, and riding on a mule with his son Na’il behind him.

It is related through several sound chains that `Uthman recited the Qur’an in a single rak`a. Ibrahim ibn Rustum al-Marwazi said: "Four are the Imams that recited the entire Qur’an in a single rak`a: `Uthman ibn `Affan, Tamim al-Dari, Sa`id ibn Jubayr, and Abu Hanifa." Ibn al-Mubarak also narrated that `Uthman used to fast all year round. `Ali ibn Abi Talib said: "`Uthman was one of those who were ‘mindful of their duty and [did] good works, and again [were] mindful of [their] duty, and [believed], and once again [were] mindful of their duty, and did right. Allah loves those who do good.’ (5:93)" Ibn `Umar said that `Uthman was meant by the verse "Is he who pays adoration in the watches of the night, prostrate and standing, bewaring of the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord. . ." (39:9).

Anas narrated: When Hudhayfa campaigned with the people of Iraq and al-Sham in Armenia, the Muslims contended with regard to the Qur’an in a reprehensible manner. Hudhayfa came to `Uthman and told him: "O Commander of the Believers, rescue this Community before they differ in the Qur’an the way Christians and Jews differed in the Books." `Uthman was alarmed at this and sent word to Hafsa the Mother of the Believers: "Send me all the volumes in which the Qur’an has been written down." When she did, `Uthman ordered Zayd ibn Thabit, Sa`id ibn al-`As, `Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, and `Abd Al-Rahman ibn al-Harith ibn Hisham to copy them into volumes. He said: "If you all differ with Zayd concerning the Arabic, then write it in the dialect of Quraysh, for truly the Qur’an was only revealed in their dialect." There is Consensus around the integral contents of `Uthman’s volume. This means that one who denies or questions it in whole or in part has left Islam.

`Uthman was neither tall nor short, extremely handsome, brunet, large-jointed, wide-shouldered, with a large beard which he dyed yellow and long hair which reached to his shoulders, and gold-braced teeth. `Abd Allah ibn Hazm said: "I saw `Uthman, and I never saw man nor woman handsomer of face than him."

The plot to kill `Uthman marked the onset of Dissension (fitna) in the Community. Together with deadly division, the great sign of this Dissension was the beginning of falsehood. The timing of the spread of falsehood was foretold by the Prophet in the hadith: "I entrust to you the well-being of my Companions, and that of those that come after them. Then falsehood will spread." To counter this, the sciences of hadith and hadith criticism were innovated within the half-century which followed `Uthman’s death in order to sift true Prophetic and Companion-reports from false ones. This was done by verifying the authenticity of transmission chains (isnâds) embodied in the honesty and competence of transmitters, and by examining the conditions and contents of transmission in their minutest historical, linguistic, and doctrinal details. Ibn Sirin (d. 110) said: "We used to accept as true what we heard, then lies spread and we began to say: Name your transmitters." Confirming this is al-Hasan al-Basri’s (d. 110) reaction to someone who requested his isnâd: "O man! I neither lie nor was ever called a liar!" Later scholars such as Ibn al-Mubarak (d. 181) declared: "Isnâd is an integral part of the Religion, otherwise anyone can say anything."

The principle of authentication was founded by the Prophet himself and used by the Companions. This is proved by the Prophet’s questioning of the man who said he had seen the new moon of Ramadan: "Do you bear witness that there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah?" When he replied in the affirmative, the Prophet accepted his news. Similarly, Ibn `Abbas said: "If a trustworthy source tells us of a fatwa by `Ali, we do not seek any further concerning it." This shows that they already distinguished between true and dubious sources. Furthermore, all the Companions are considered trustworthy sources according to Allah’s saying: "You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind" (3:110) and several other verses and hadiths to that effect. This evidence was listed by al-Khatib in al-Kifaya and Ibn Hajar in al-Isaba.

The Prophet spoke of `Uthman’s forthcoming martyrdom on numerous occasions:

"Give him [`Uthman] the tidings of Paradise after a trial that shall befall him."

"A dissension shall surge like so many bull’s horns. At that time, he [indicating a man wearing a veil] and whoever is with him are on the side of right." Ka`b ibn Murra al-Bahzi then ran to the man, lifted his veil, and turned him towards the Prophet saying: "Him, O Messenger of Allah?" The Prophet said yes. It was `Uthman ibn `Affan.

`Uthman said: "The Prophet took a covenant from me [not to fight at the time of my martyrdom] and I shall fulfill it."

"O `Uthman! It may be that Allah shall vest you with a shirt. If they demand that you remove it, do not remove it."

Ibn `Umar said: "As `Uthman was delivering a sermon, Jahjah al-Ghafari walked up to him, snatched his stick, and broke it on his knee. A shard of wood entered his thigh and it got gangrened and was amputated. Then he died within the year. Al-Qadi `Iyad relates in his book al-Shifa’, chapter entitled "Esteem for the things and places connected with the Prophet," that this staff had belonged to the Prophet.

`Abd Allah ibn Salam said to the Egyptians at the time they were besieging the Commander of the Believers `Uthman ibn `Affan: "Never did Allah’s sword not remain sheathed from harming you since the Prophet came to it until this very day." Yazid ibn Abi Habib said: "I have heard that most of those that rode to kill `Uthman were later seized by demonic possession." Al-Dhahabi mentioned that `Ali had pronounced a curse on `Uthman’s killers. One of the reasons for the climate of hatred stirred up against the Caliph was the grievance of some parties from Egypt and Iraq that `Uthman was favoring his relatives among the Banu Umayya with public offices and demanded that he remove them.

Ibn al-Musayyib related that a group of seven hundred Egyptians came to complain to `Uthman about their governor Ibn Abi Sarh’s tyranny, so `Uthman said: "Chose someone to govern you." They chose Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr, so `Uthman wrote credentials for him and they returned. On their way back, at three days’ distace from Madina, a black slave caught up with them with the news that he carried orders from `Uthman to the governor of Egypt. They searched him and found a message from `Uthman to Ibn Abi Sarh ordering the death of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr and some of his friends. They returned to Madina and besieged `Uthman. The latter acknowledged that the camel, the slave, and the seal on the letter belonged to him, but he swore that he had never written nor ordered the letter to be written. It was discovered that the letter had been hand-written by Marwan ibn al-Hakam. `Uthman was besieged for twenty-two days during which he refused both to give up Marwan and to resign. He was killed on the last day of Dhu al-Hijja, on the day of Jum`a, by several men who had crept into his house.

Ibn `Umar related from `Uthman that the previous night the latter had seen the Prophet in his dream telling him: "Be strong! Verily you shall break your fast with us tomorrow night." When his assailants came in they found him reading the Qur’an. `Uthman was first stabbed in the head with an arrow-head, then a man placed the point of his sword against his belly, whereupon his wife Na’ila tried to prevent him with her hand, losing several fingers. Then `Uthman and Na’ila’s servant were killed as the latter fought back. She ran out of the house screaming for help and the killers dispersed. It is narrated that `Uthman was killed as he was reading the verse "And Allah will suffice you for defense against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower." (2:137) Several reports state that at the time of `Uthman’s siege and death Zayd ibn Thabit had marshalled three hundred Ansâr in his defense together with Abu Hurayra, Ibn `Umar, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, `Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, but `Uthman forbade all of them to fight.

Among `Uthman’s sayings:

"If I were between Paradise and the Fire, unsure where I will be sent, I would choose to be turned into ash before finding out where I was bound."

"I swear by Allah that I never committed fornication in the Time of Ignorance nor in Islam. Islam only increased me in modesty."

His servant Hani’ narrated: "Whenever `Uthman stood before a grave he wept until his beard was wet. He was asked: ‘You have seen battle and death without a tear, and you cry for this?’ He said: ‘The grave is the first abode of the hereafter. Whoever is saved from it, what follows is easier; whoever is not saved from it, what follows is harder. The Prophet said: "I have not seen anything more frightful than the punishment in the grave."’" `Uthman also related from the Prophet that whenever the latter finished burying someone, he would stand by the grave and say: "All of you, ask Allah to forgive your brother and make him steadfast, for he is now being questioned."

The Prophet said: "More men will enter Paradise through the intercession of a certain man than there are people in the tribes of Rabi`a and Mudar." The elders considered that this was `Uthman ibn `Affan.


Main sources: Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:92-100 #3; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1/2: 566-614 #4.

[IronEagle]

The Rightly-Guided Caliphs_Ali ibn Abi Talib

Ali ibn Abi Talib `Abd Manaf ibn `Abd al-Muttalib ibn Hashim ibn `Abd Manaf, Abu al-Hasan al-Qurashi al-Hashimi (d. 40), Amîr al-Mu’minîn, the first male believer in Islam, the Prophet’s standard-bearer in battle, the Door of the City of Knowledge, the most judicious of the Companions, and the "Possessor of a wise heart and enquiring tongue." The Prophet nicknamed him Abu Turâb or Father of Dust. His mother was Fatima bint Asad, whom the Prophet called his own mother and at whose grave he made a remarkable intercession. He accepted Islam when he was eight, or nine, or fourteen, depending on the narrations, but it is established from Ibn `Abbas that he was the first male Muslim after the Prophet, Khadija being the first Muslim. He was killed at age fifty-eight. From him narrated Abu Bakr, `Umar, his sons al-Hasan and al-Husayn, Ibn `Abbas, `Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, and countless others.

`Ali was a skilled and fearless fighter, and the Prophet gave him his standard to carry on the day of Badr and in subsequent battles. At the same time he was the repository of Prophetic wisdom among the Companions. The latter, when asked about difficult legal rulings, deferred to others the responsibility of answering, while `Ali, alone among them, used to say: "Ask me." `Umar said: "I seek refuge in Allah from a problem which Abu al-Hasan cannot solve." Similarly `A’isha said: "He is the most knowledgeable about the Sunna among those who remain," and Ibn `Abbas: "If a trustworthy source tells us of a fatwa by `Ali, we do not seek any further concerning it." Sulayman al-Ahmusi narrated from his father that `Ali said: "By Allah! No verse was ever revealed except I knew the reason for which it was revealed and in what place and concerning whom. Verily my Lord has bestowed upon me a wise heart and a speaking tongue." At the same time `Ali humbly declared: "What cools my liver most, if I am asked something I know not, is to say: ‘Allah knows best’."

Imam Ahmad said: "There is no Companion concerning whom are reported as many merits as `Ali ibn Abi Talib." Following are some of the hadiths to that effect.

On the eve of the campaign of Khaybar, the Prophet said: "I shall give the standard to a man who loves Allah and His Messenger, and whom Allah loves and also His Messenger." `Umar said: "I never liked to be entrusted leadership before that day." The next day the Prophet summoned `Ali and gave him the flag.

Salama ibn `Amr narrated that the day of Khaybar, the Prophet summoned `Ali who came led by the hand, as he was suffering from inflammation of the eyes. The Prophet then blew on his eyes and gave him the flag. Another version states that Ibn Abi Layla told his father to ask `Ali why he wore summer clothes in winter and winter clothes in summer. `Ali said: "The day of Khaybar the Prophet summoned me when my eyes were sore. I said to him: ‘O Messenger of Allah! I have ophtalmia.’ He blew on my eyes and said: ‘O Allah! remove from him hot and cold.’ I never felt hot nor cold after that day."

The Prophet left `Ali behind in the campaign of Tabuk. The latter said: "O Messenger of Allah! Are you leaving me behind with the women and children?" The Prophet replied: "Are you not happy to stand next to me like Harun next to Musa, save that there is no Prophet after me?"

The Prophet said: "I am the city of knowledge and `Ali is its gate." Another version states: "I am the house of wisdom and `Ali is its gate."

When Allah revealed the verse: "Come! We will summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we will pray humbly and invoke the curse of Allah upon those who lie" (3:61), the Prophet summoned `Ali, Fatima, Hasan, and Husayn, and said: "O Allah! These are my Family."

The Prophet said: "Anyone whose protecting friend (mawla) I am, `Ali is his protecting friend." `Umar said: "Congratulations, O `Ali! You have become the protecting friend of every single believer."

The Prophet said: "`Ali is part of me and I am part of `Ali! No-one conveys something on my behalf except I or he." The context of this hadith was the conveyance of Sura Bara’a to the Quraysh and the rescinding of the Prophet’s pact with them. The scholars have explained that the Prophet’s phrase "X is part of me and I am part of X" is a hyperbole signifying oneness of path and agreement in obeying Allah. The Prophet said that phrase also about the following: the Companion Julaybib who was found dead after a battle next to seven enemies killed by him; the Ash`aris; and the Banu Najya.

Some people complained to the Prophet about `Ali, whereupon he stood and said: "Do not accuse `Ali of anything! By Allah, he is truly a little rough (la’ukhayshan) in Allah’s cause."

When the Prophet sent `Ali to Yemen the latter said: "O Messenger of Allah, you are sending me to people who are older than me so that I judge between them!" The Prophet said: "Go, for verily Allah shall empower your tongue and guide your heart." `Ali said: "After that I never felt doubt as to what judgment I should pass between two parties."

The Prophet said: "The most compassionate of my Community towards my Community is Abu Bakr; the staunchest in Allah’s Religion is `Umar; the most truthful in his modesty is `Uthman, and the best in judgment is `Ali." `Umar said: "`Ali is the best in judgment among us, and Ubayy is the most proficient at the Qur’anic readings." Ibn Mas`ud similarly said: "We used to say that the best in judgment among the people of Madina was `Ali." It is a measure of al-Hasan al-Basri’s greatness that `Ali once followed his recommendation in a judicial case.

`Amr ibn Sha’s al-Aslami complained about `Ali upon returning from Yemen where he had accompanied him. News of it reached the Prophet who said: "O `Amr! By Allah, you have done me harm." `Amr said: "I seek refuge in Allah from harming you, O Messenger of Allah!" He said: "But you did. Whoever harms `Ali harms me." The Prophet also used the terms "Whoever harms X has harmed me" about his uncle al-`Abbas.

Umm Salama said to Abu `Abd Allah al-Jadali: "Is Allah’s Messenger being insulted among you?! [in Kufa]" He said: "Allah forbid!" She said: "I heard Allah’s Messenger say: ‘Whoso insults `Ali, insults me.’"

`Ali said: "In truth the Prophet has made a covenant with me saying: ‘None loves you except a believer, and none hates you except a hypocrite." Abu Sa`id al-Khudri subsequently said: "In truth we recognized the hypocrites by their hatred for `Ali." Jabir said: "We did not know the hypocrites of this Community except by their hatred for `Ali."

The innovations of those who bore excessive love and admiration for `Ali appeared in his own lifetime and he himself fought them in word and deed. To those that claimed that the Prophet had appointed him as successor after him he said: "In truth, Allah’s Messenger did not appoint any successor" and: "The Prophet was taken from us, then Abu Bakr was made the successor, so he did as the Prophet had done and according to his path until Allah took him from us; then `Umar was made the successor, so he did as the Prophet had done and according to his path until Allah took him from us." To those that claimed that he deserved the Caliphate better than Abu Bakr and `Umar he said: "The best of this Community after its Prophet are Abu Bakr and `Umar." To those that either hated him or overly loved him `Ali said: "Two types of people shall perish concerning me: a hater who forges lies about me, and a lover who over-praises me." To those that claimed that he or his family possessed other than the Qur’an which all Muslims had he said: "Whoever claims that we have something which we read other than the Qur’an has lied." Finally, when a group of people came to him saying: "You are He, you are our Lord! (anta Hû anta Rabbuna)" he had them executed and then ordered the bodies burnt.

When `Ali was given allegiance as Caliph he moved from Madina to Kufa in Iraq and made it his capital. His tenure lasted five years (35-40) marred by three great dissensions which tore apart the fabric of the Muslim Community: the battle of the Camel (year 36) against the party of `A’isha the Mother of the Believers, the battle of Siffin (year 37) aganst the party of Mu`awiya ibn Abi Sufyan, and the campaign against the Khawârij in the following two years, until he was assassinated by one of them in Kufa as he came out for the dawn prayer. The pretext for the meeting of the armies on the day of the Camel and the day of Siffin was the demand for `Uthman’s killers on the part of `A’isha and Mu`awiya, but the winds of war were fanned by sowers of discord from inside all three camps until events escaped the control of the Companions. It is related that `Ali often expressed astonishment at the dissension and opposition that surrounded him. The Prophet had predicted these events, notably the battle of the Camel with the words: "One of you women shall come out riding a long-haired camel, and the dogs of Haw’ab [between Mecca and Basra] will bark at her. Many shall be killed to her right and her left, and she shall escape after near death." At any rate, Ahl al-Sunna adopted as theirs the position taken by one of the Salaf who said: "Those from whose blood Allah has kept our swords pure, we shall not soil our tongues with their slander." The most reliable book written on the divergences of the Companions is Abu Bakr ibn al-`Arabi’s (d. 543) al-`Awasim min al-Qawasim fi Tahqiq Mawaqif al-Sahaba Ba`da Wafati al-Nabi Sallallahu `Alayhi wa Sallam.

Another innovation fought by `Ali was that of the Khawârij or "Seceders," also known as Hurûriyya after the village of Hurur, near Kufa, where they set up military quarters. They were originally a group of up to twenty thousand pious worshippers and memorizers of the Qur’an (`ubbâd wa qurrâ’) who were part of `Ali’s army but walked out on him after he accepted arbitration in the crises with Mu`awiya ibn Abi Sufyan and `A’isha the Mother of the Believers. Their strict position was on the basis of the verse "The decision rests with Allah only" (6:57, 12:40, 12:67). `Ali said: "A word of truth by which falsehood is sought!" He sent them the expert interpreter of the Qur’an among the Companions, Ibn `Abbas, who recited to them the verses "The judge is to be two men among you known for justice" (5:95) and "Appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk" (4:35) then said: "Allah has thereby entrusted arbitration to men, although if He had wished to decide He would have decided. And is the sanctity of the Community of Muhammad not greater than that of a man and a woman?" Hearing this, four thousand of the Khawârij came back with him while the rest either left the field or persisted in their enmity and were killed in the battles of Nahrawan (year 38) and al-Nukhayla (year 39).

The Prophet had predicted that `Ali would fight the Khawârij with the words: "In truth there will be, among you, one who shall fight over the interpretation of the Qur’an just as I fought over its revelation." Abu Bakr and `Umar asked: "Am I he?" The Prophet said: "No, it is the one who is mending the shoes." He had given his shoes to `Ali to mend. The Prophet also predicted `Ali’s martyrdom with the words: "This shall be dyed red from this" and he pointed to `Ali’s beard and head respectively.

The Khawârij are the first doctrinal innovators in Islam. They considered all sinners apostates, as well as all those who opposed them. By this takfîr, they justified to themselves the killing and spoliation of Muslims including women and children. Muslims who joined them were forced to first declare themseves disbelievers then enter Islam again. They distinguished themselves by shaving their heads out of austerity, a practice which they innovated and which the Prophet had foretold. Yet the Khawârij deemed themselves scrupulously pious and the only true Muslims on earth. When `Ali’s murderer, `Abd al-Rahman ibn Muljam al-Muradi, was dismembered and blinded he remained impassive and recited the Sura "Recite! In the Name of Thy Lord" (96:1) in its entirety, but when they moved to pull out his tongue he resisted; asked for the reason he said: "I hate to spend a single moment on earth not mentioning Allah." He was then executed and burnt. His forehead bore the trace of frequent prostration.

The Khawârij pre-dated the Rawâfid in their vilification of Abu Bakr and `Umar. `Ali declared it licit to fight them because they had killed the Companion Khabbab ibn al-Arathth and his wife for praising the four Caliphs. The Prophet had predicted their appearance in many hadiths. Among them:

`Ali sent the Prophet a treasure which the latter proceeded to distribute. The Quraysh became angry and said: "He is giving to the nobility of Najd and leaving us out!" The Prophet said: "I am only trying to win their hearts over to us." Then a man came with sunken eyes, protruding cheeks, big forehead, profuse beard, and shaven head. He said: "Fear Allah, O Muhammad!" The Prophet replied: "And who shall obey Allah if I disobey him? Does Allah trust me with the people of the earth, so that you should not trust me?" One of the Companions û Khalid ibn Walid û asked permission to kill the man but the Prophet did not give it. He said: "Out of that man’s seed shall come a people who will recite the Qur’an but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They shall kill the Muslims and leave the idolaters alone. If I live to see them, verily I shall kill them the way the tribe of `Ad was killed." Ibn Taymiyya cited this hadith as proof that the Khawârij shaved their heads.

"The Khawârij are the dogs of Hell-fire."

`Ali was described as having white hair which he parted in the middle, a very large white beard, and large, heavy eyes. He was heavyset and his height was medium to short. He was blunt in his renunciation of the world even in his own dress. When Ibn al-Nabbah came to him with the news that the treasury-house was filled with gold and silver `Ali summoned the people of Kufa and distributed everything to them with the words: "O Yellow, O White! Go fool other than me." Then he ordered the treasury-house swept, and he prayed two rak`a in it. Jurmuz said: "I saw `Ali coming out of his palace wearing a waist-cloth that reached to the middle of his shank and an outer garment tucked up at the sleeves, walking in the marketplace while hitting a small drum (dirra) and enjoining upon people Godwariness and honesty in transactions. He would say: ‘Observe good measure and do not bloat up the meat.’" When one of the Khawârij criticized him for what he was wearing, he said: "What do you want with my clothing? This is farther from arrogance and more suitable for me as I am imitated by Muslims."

Al-Hasan ibn `Ali narrated that the morning of his murder `Ali said: "Last night I woke up my family [to pray] because it was the night before Jum`a and the morning of Badr û the seventeenth of Ramadan û then I dozed off and the Prophet came before me. I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! What crookedness and contention have I found coming from your Community!’ He said: ‘Supplicate against them.’ I said: ‘O Allah! Substitute them with something that will be better for me, and substitute me with something that will be worse for them.’" Then `Ali went out to pray preceded by the mu’adhdhin Ibn al-Nabbah and followed by al-Hasan. `Ali came out of the gateway calling the people to prayer and was faced by two men armed with swords. Ibn Muljam struck him on the head with a poisoned sword and was caught, while the other hit the arch of the gate and fled. `Ali said: "Feed the prisoner and give him water, if I live I shall decide about him, and if I die, kill him as I was killed without further enmity. ‘Lo! Allah loves not aggressors’ (2:190, 5:87, 7:55)."

It was decided to make `Ali’s grave a secret lest the Khawârij dig it up. After his son al-Hasan prayed the funeral prayer over him, he was buried at the Caliphal palace in Kufa, then all traces of his grave were effaced. It is also narrated that al-Hasan conveyed the body in a coffin to Madina and that on the way the camel that carried the coffin got lost by night and was found by members of the Tayyi’ tribe who buried the body and slaughtered the camel.

Among `Ali’s sayings narrated by Abu Nu`aym with his chains:

From al-Husayn ibn `Ali: "The most sincere of people in their actions and the most knowledgeable of Allah are those who are strongest in their love and awe for the sanctity of the people of lâ ilâha illallâh."

From `Abd Khayr: "Goodness does not consist in having much property and children, but in doing many good deeds, increasing your gentle character, and adorning yourself before people with the worship of your Lord. Then, if you do well, glorify Allah; if you do ill, ask forgiveness of Him. There is no good in the world except for two types of people: someone who sins and then follows up with repentence, and someone who races to do good deeds. What is done in Godwariness is never little, and how can something be little if accepted by Allah?"

From Abu al-Zaghl: "Remember five instructions from me in following which you shall sooner exhaust your camels than run out of their benefit: let no servant hope for anything except from his Lord; let him not fear anything except his own sin; let no ignorant person feel ashamed to ask about what he knows not; let no knowledgeable person, if asked about what he knows not, feel ashamed to say Allah knows best; and patience is in relation to belief like the head to the body, one has no belief if he has no patience."

From Muhajir ibn `Umayr: "What I fear most is the hankering after idle desires and long hopes. The former blocks one from the truth and the latter causes forgetfulness of the hereafter. In truth the world has gone its way out, in truth the hereafter has come journeying to us û and each of the two has its own sons. Therefore be a son of the hereafter and do not be a son of the world! Today there are deeds without accounts, and tomorrow, accounts without deeds."

From Abu Araka: "I have seen a remnant of the Companions of Allah’s Messenger. I see no-one that resembles them. By Allah! They used to rise in the morning disheveled, dust-covered, pale, with something between their eyes like goat’s knees, as they had spent the night chanting Allah’s Book, turning from their feet to their foreheads. If Allah was mentioned they swayed the way trees sway on a windy day, then their eyes poured out tears until û by Allah! û they soaked their clothes. By Allah! It is as if folks today sleep in indifference."

From al-Hasan ibn `Ali: "Blessed is the servant that cries constantly to Allah, who has known people while they have not known him, and Allah has marked him with His contentment. These are the true beacons of guidance. Allah repels from them every wrongful dissension and shall enter them into His own mercy. They are not the wasteful tale-bearers nor the ill-mannered self-displayers."

From `Asim ibn Damura: "The true, the real faqîh is he who does not push people to despair from Allah’s mercy, nor lulls them into a false sense of safety from His Punishment, nor gives them licenses to disobey Allah, nor leaves the Qur’an for something else. There is no good in worship devoid of knowledge, nor in knowledge devoid of understanding, nor in inattentive recitation." This is comparable to al-Hasan al-Basri’s own definition: "Have you ever seen a faqîh? The faqîh is he who has renounced the world, longs for the hereafter, possesses insight in his Religion, and worships his Lord without cease."

From `Amr ibn Murra: "Be wellsprings of the Science and beacons in the night, wearing old clothes but possessing new hearts for which you shall be known in the heaven and remembered on the earth."

"This world lasts for an hour: Spend it in obedience."

"Thus does Knowledge die: when those who possess it die. By Allah, I do swear it! The earth will never be empty of one who establishes the proofs of Allah so that His proofs ans signs never cease. They are the fewest in number, but the greatest in rank before Allah. Through them Allah preserves His proofs until they bequeath it to those like them (before passing on) and plant it firmly in their hearts. By them knowledge has taken by assault the reality of things, so that they found easy what those given to comfort found hard, and found intimacy in what the ignorant found desolate. They accompanied the world with bodies whose spirits were attached to the highest regard. Ah, ah! How one yearns to see them!"

Imam al-Nawawi narrated a remarkable patrolinear chain for a hadith going back to `Ali: "Among the best of the narrations of the type ‘sons from fathers’ is that of al-Khatib with a chain going back to `Abd al-Wahhab ibn `Abd al-`Aziz ibn al-Harith ibn Asad ibn al-Layth ibn Sulayman ibn al-Aswad ibn Sufyan ibn Yazid ibn Akina al-Tamimi who said: I heard my father (Yazid) say: I heard my father (Sufyan) say: I heard my father (al-Aswad) say: I heard my father (Sulayman) say: I heard my father (al-Layth) say: I heard my father (Asad) say: I heard my father (al-Harith) say: I heard my father (`Abd al-`Aziz) say: I heard my father (`Abd al-Wahhab) say: I heard `Ali ibn Abi Talib say: ‘The compassionate (al-hannân) is he who comes to the one who shunned him. The granter of favor (al-mannân) is he who extends the favor before he is asked for it."

Main sources: Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:100-128 #4; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1/2:615-660 #5.

[IronEagle]

The Prophet said: "The most compassionate of my Community towards my Community is Abu Bakr; the staunchest in Allah’s Religion is `Umar; the most truthful in his modesty is `Uthman, and the best in judgment is `Ali." `Umar said: "`Ali is the best in judgment among us, and Ubayy is the most proficient at the Qur’anic readings." Ibn Mas`ud similarly said: "We used to say that the best in judgment among the people of Madina was `Ali." It is a measure of al-Hasan al-Basri’s greatness that `Ali once followed his recommendation in a judicial case.

PS: It's not orignally my post, it's from the post of Sister Fatimah.

[Hischam Khan]

Peace to you Malcolm X,

Just a bit of a correction that I feel I should make. Forgive me if I misunderstood you but it seems that you’re saying that everything the Prophet (P) said was revelation. The Qur’anic verse that you referred to says (with its context):


<font color="#0000FF"> “By the Star when it goes down,-
Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
He was taught by one Mighty in Power”</font> S 53:1-5

The key part is “It (the Qur’an) is no less than inspiration sent down to him”. Hence not everything that he says is revelation. It is referring to the revelation of the Qur’an.


Concerning Surah 43:23:

“O Prophet, say to them: “I do not ask of you any reward for this work; however, I do seek the love of kindred.”

The above is a translation from Maududi’s translation and the following is his commentary on the verse:

“This verse has been interpreted in three ways: (1) “I do not ask of you any reward for this service, but I do desire that you (O people of Quraish), should show some regard for the kinship that exists between me and you. How is it that you yourselves have become my worst opponents?” (2) “I do not seek from you any other reward than – that you should develop in yourselves a desire for attaining nearness to Allah.” (3) Of the commentators who give this third interpretation some interpret “the kindred” all the children of ‘Abu Muttalib, and some others restrict it only to Hadrat ‘Ali and Fatimah and their children, but this interpretation cannot be acceptable for several reasons. Firstly, when Surah Ash-Shura was sent down at Mekkah, Hadrat ‘Ali and Fatimah had not yet been married and, therefore, there could be no question of their children. As for the children of ‘Abdul Muttalib, they were not all following the Holy Prophet but some of them had openly joined his enemies, and the enmity of Abu Lahab is too well known. Second, “the kindred” of the Holy Prophet were not only the children of ‘Abdul Muttalib, but he had his kindred among all the families of the Quraish through his mother and father and his wife, Hadrat Khadijah. In all these clans he had his best supporters as well as his staunch enemies. Third, and this is most important of all, in view of the high position of a Prophet from which he starts his mission of inviting the people towards Allah, it does not seem fitting that he would ask the people to love his kindred in return for his services in connection with his great mission. No person of fine taste could ever imagine that Allah would have taught His Prophet such a mean thing, and the Prophet would have uttered it in so many words before the Quraish. Then it seems all the more irrelevant when we see that the addressees here are the disbelievers and not the believers. The whole discourse, from the beginning to the end, is directed to them. Therefore, there could be no question in this connection of asking the opponents for any kind of reward, for a reward is asked of those who show some appreciation for the services that a person has rendered for them.”

What I simply want to say is that it’s clear that the verse can be interpreted in more ways than one and it is not at all explicit enough if it is meant to be expressing what you state. In order to prove the immamat and infallibility of the twelve imams I would request that some evidence which is explicit is given from the Holy Qur’an (the Primary Muslim source).

Salam.




P.S. - I haven't yet read through what Iron Eagle has written so my apologise if I repeat something that has already been said etc. I will read through it though Inshallah.

[malcolmx]

asalam

Hischam Khan

i will deal with 53;1-4 further down, but i urge u and other to think criticly and logicly these verses from the Quran that iam posting. and have in mind these simple questions:
1. how can u follow the sunnah, when u think that the Prophet (PBUH)sinned! the Quran came during 23 years, bit by bit, some parts in a year, that leaves great time for error in a year!

2.there is no verse in the Quran that states that OBEDIENCE to the Prophet (PBUH)is condistional! (like obedience is condistional for parants.)

3. when did the Prophet (PBUH) "switch" his Prophethood off and on? or on what/which matters, concerning what? when was he in error as a man?

I HOPE THESE VERSES WILL THROUGH SOME LIGHT ON THE QUESTION!

According to the scholar Muhammad Jawad Mughniyah (May Allah rest his soul in peace), in his book "al-Islam Wa al-'Aql -- Islam and Reason," the concept of Ismah (Infallibility) is very often misunderstood. What we mean by that concept is that a prophet, by virtue of his prophethood, has a pure soul. As the Quran states:

"...the (human) soul certainly incites evil, UNLESS my lord do bestow His Mercy... (12:53)"

Clearly Allah (SWT) has made an exception (by using the term "UNLESS") to the human soul that incites evil. We can understand, based on Shi'ite philosophy, that the attachment of the soul (Nafs) to being is that of a relationship of control and administration. Therefore, the soul may incite evil; but the individual has the freedom and the authority to reject that invitation to evil. If the individual accepts the invitation to evil, he becomes accountable for that evil which he commits. This is a very simplified explanation, but it serves the purpose.

Now, the prophets or the messengers, are among the exception as Allah (SWT) has indicated. That is, there is something in the soul of these virtuous HUMANS that precludes the incitement of evil, and as such they never commit it. Their virtue is so high that they never even think of committing a sin. It is NOT that if a prophet or a messenger wanted to commit a sin, he can't; rather, it is that "Mercy," mentioned in the above verse, that is bestowed upon him from Allah (SWT) that precludes him from doing so. As such, he is sinless and infallible even though they have full ability of committing any kind of sin.

When Satan refused to prostrate to Adam, He was driven away and became an accursed one. Quran states that thereupon Satan said:

15:39 He said: My Lord, Because You has sent me astray, verily I shall adorn the path of error for them on the earth, and shall deceive them all.
15:40 Except those of them who are Your perfectly devoted Servants.
15:41 (Allah) said: "This (Way of My sincere servants) is indeed a Way that leads straight to Me.
15:42 Lo! as for My slaves, you have NO way into them except the wrong-doers who follow you.
15:43 And verily for all such people, hell is the promised place.

It is clear from the above conversation that Allah has promised that Satan has NO WAY into His sincere Servants, and only wrong-doers will follow the Satan. Thus the Sincere Servants of Allah are not wrong-doers and shall not be deceived. Also Allah confirms that the Path of His Sincere Servants is a path which leads straight to Him. All these facts prove that the Sincere Servants of Allah never fall into the trap of Satan, and as such they are infallible, due to Allah's Mercy.

One side remark here is that there is no mention of "prophet" or "messenger" in the above verses. In other words, the "perfectly devoted Servants" who are infallible are not necessarily "prophets" or "messengers".

First, it would be of help to take a look at the commandment of obeying the messenger, to see how all-encompassing and all-pervading this commandment is, and how great the authority of the messenger of Allah is. Allah states in Quran:

"And we did not send any messenger, unless he should be obeyed by Allah's authority." (Quran 4:64)

The prophet or the messenger of God is to be obeyed and followed; the followers ARE NOT EXPECTED TO CHECK EVERY ORDER OF THE PROPHET to decide what is to be obeyed and what is not to be obeyed. There is no way to check his commands, because he himself gave us all the rules and divine laws in the form of Scripture and his traditions (sayings/actions/satisfactions). If we become suspicious to some of the actions of the prophet, this suspicion can cause all his commands and laws that he has already conveyed to go under question. This shows that the prophets and messengers were free from error and sin; otherwise Allah would not have ordered people to obey them UNCONDITIONALLY.

There are many verses in which Allah commands us to obey the prophet:

"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and do not burn your deeds (by disobeying him)." (Quran 47:33)
Allah, Exalted, also states:

"Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah." (Quran 4:80)
In the above verses as well as many other verses of the Quran, obedience of Allah has become synonymous with the obedience of the prophets. Such assertion would have been impossible if the prophets were not infallible (Ma'soom). Now, note the following verse:

"....and obey not from among them a sinner or an ungrateful one." (Quran 76:24)
The picture is complete! "The prophets are to be obeyed," and "the sinners are NOT to be obeyed." The only conclusion is that the prophets were NOT sinners or wrong-doers. In other words, they were infallible (Ma'soom) and sinless.

Looking specially at the Holy Prophet of Islam (PBUH&HF), Allah tells us:

"And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and from whatever he forbids you, keep back." (Quran 59:7)

This is another indication that WHATEVER the Prophet (PBUH&HF) offered must be accepted unconditionally and with no doubt. This means that the permission or prohibition of the Holy Prophet was always in accordance with the will of Allah and was always favored by Him. It proves that the Holy Prophet was protected (Ma'soom). No one can be so sure about the commands of a man who is not infallible.

Now, if the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was a sinner as some people falsely allege, then how can Allah (SWT) order us to accept that which could be sinful? Fear Allah (SWT) in your reasoning. For those who argue that the above verse is specific ONLY to religious injunctions, and the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is sinless in that matter only, I would say such assertion is baseless. This is a basic rule that to the time that there is no exclusion or condition or particularization has been mentioned in conjunction with a text of Quran, it covers all aspects. Second, EVERYTHING the Prophet (PBUH&HF) spoke had something to do with Allah (SWT) and His religion; then how can you claim that Allah (SWT) is making a separation? Haven't you heard what Aisha said when she was asked about the Prophet's behavior? She said: "His life was the Quran, especially the first ten verses of the Chapter al-Noor, the Light." Now, if the Prophet's (PBUH&HF) life was the Quran verbatim, how can he (PBUH&HF) be a sinner? That means that the Quran is full of sinful things! Exalted be Allah (SWT) from revealing such a book!!! There is another verse in which Allah said:

"(O prophet) tell (people) If you really love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins." (Quran 3:31)

Here the love of Allah is made contingent on following the orders of the Prophet of Islam. Both sides of love are included in it. If you love Allah follow the Prophet; if you follow the Prophet, Allah will love you. Does it not show that the Prophet was absolutely free from any type of blemish?

Not only the orders of the Prophet, but also all his decisions are protected from error for Allah said to his Prophet:

But no by thy Lord! They can have no (real) Faith until they make thee judge in ALL disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest conviction. (Quran 4:65)
If ALL the decisions of the Prophet should be accepted unconditionally, then the Prophet should be protected from error in ALL his decisions.

Beside his actions and his decisions, even any single word of his speeches was the Commands of Allah. Almighty states in the Quran:

53:1 By the Star when it sets,
53:2 Your companion (i.e., Prophet) does not err/wander, nor is he deceived
53:3 Nor does he speak out of his desire;
53:4 It is no less than a revelation that is revealed.
53:5 The Mighty in Power has taught him.

The above verses not only proves that the Prophet did not err or sin, but also testifies that all his speeches were revelation (either directly or indirectly). These verses unequivocally clears the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) from EVER saying ANYTHING of his (PBUH&HF) own desire. That includes his (PBUH&HF) tradition and the Quran. For those who argue otherwise, don't forget that the tradition is used in ANY interpretation of the Quran; and in matters of Jurisprudence (Fiqh), as well as in other areas. If the tradition is corrupt because you claim that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is a sinner (May Allah forgive us!!!), then the interpretation of the Quran is also corrupt!!! Fear Allah (SWT) in your reasoning! For those who claim that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is sinless in the delivery of the Message of Allah (SWT), and that includes the Hadith, then you have already admitted what the Shia say!!! It is unanimously agreed that the Sunnah of the Prophet covers the Prophet's sayings, actions, and thought/satisfaction. Since the Sunnah are reflections of the Prophet's actions, he (PBUH&HF) is then sinless in the actions as well.

Allah also said:

"Have We not caused thy bosom to dilate? And removed from thee thy burden? That which weighed down thy back? And exalted the esteem (in which) thou (art held)?..." (Quran 94:1-4)

"It is He who has sent His Messenger with the GUIDANCE and the Religion of Truth..." (Quran 9:33)

"And the unbelievers say: Why is not a Sign sent down to him from his Lord? But thou art truly a warner and for EVERY nation there exists a GUIDE." (Quran 13:7)
A Messenger, who rehearses to you the Signs of Allah containing clear explanations, in order to lead forth those who believe and do righteous deeds from the depths of Darkness into Light." (Quran 65:11)

The above verses of Quran testify that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) was a Guide sent to lead forth people from the depths of Darkness into Light. (65:11) And that he (PBUH&HF) is a warner (27:91) and one of the guides for people. (13:7). Sin is darkness, and as such, how can the Prophet was sent to move people from darkness into light when he himself is sitting in the darkness?! May Allah protect us from slandering His Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Similarly Quran informs us that the Prophet has come to us to sanctify and cleanse us and to teach us wisdom:

As We have sent unto you a messenger from among you who recites unto you Our revelations and cleanses you, and teaches you the Scripture and wisdom, and teaches you that which you knew not. (Quran 2:151)
Allah did bestow a great favor unto the believers when He sent among them an Messenger from among themselves reciting unto them the Signs of Allah sanctifying them and teaching them the Scripture and Wisdom while before that they had been in manifest error. (Quran 3:164)

See also Quran 2:129, 62:2 which also testify that one of the missions of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was to cleanse the true believers. Then how could a prophet purify others of wrong-doings if he himself were not pure? How could Allah send an impure and sinful person to cleanse others? How could a man teach others wisdom if he had no wisdom to distinguish right from wrong; or worst still, if he had no willpower to resist from doing wrong? The Prophet was to teach people the Book of Allah; this means that he KNEW the Commandment of Allah. He was to purify them and teach them wisdom. This means he himself had wisdom and purity.

Witness to the perfection of his character is found in Quran where Allah states:

"And most certainly you are on sublime morality (exalted standard of character)." (Quran 68:4)
A man committing mistakes does not deserve such compliments. All these verses clearly prove two things:

1.
The authority of the Holy Prophet upon the believers was unlimited and all-comprehensive. Any order given by him, under any condition, in any place, at any time, was to be obeyed unconditionally.
2.
Supreme authority was given to him because he was sinless (Ma'soom) and free from all types of errors and sins. Otherwise, Allah would not have ordered us to obey him with no questioning or doubt.

malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/19/2004 11:33:06

Edited by - malcolmx on 03/19/2004 11:34:19

[Nadeem]

Okay so let's stick to the Holy Qur'an and see how infallible anyone is:

Suras 4:105-6, 16:61, 33;37, 40:55, 41:6, 47:19, 48:1-2, 66:1, 75:16-19 and 80:1-10,

I am sorry I do not have time to type them here but pleased do look them up as they deal with the FAULTS of the Holy Prophet(saaws) as reported in Allah's(swt) words.

Also I will quote two verse which disprove the concept of infallibilty of any prophet(as).Regarding Yunus(as).

Sura 21:87,
"And remember Dhun-nun(Yunus),when he departed in WRATH,he imagined that We Had No Power over him!But he cried in the depths of darkness,there is no god but Thou,glory to Thee,I was indeed WRONG".

Sura 37:142,
"Then the big fish did swallow him and he had done ACTS worthy of BLAME".

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam,

I will quote some of the above verses for you all.

40:55,
"Patiently then persevere(Oh Muhammad),for the promise of Allah is true and ask FORGIVENESS for THY FAULT......."

47:19,
"Know therefore (Oh Muhammad),that there is no god but Allah and ask FORGIVENESS for THY FAULT AND for the men and women who believe...."

66:1,
"Oh Prophet,why dost thou hold forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to you....."

48:1-2,
"Verily We Have Granted thee(Muhammad)a manifest victory."
"So that We may FORGIVE thee(Muhammad) THY FAULTS of the past and those to come and fulfill Our Favour to thee and guide thee on a straight path."

16:61,
"If Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing,He would not leave(on Earth) a SINGLE living creature,but He Gives them respite for a stated Term....."

Another verse which the shias use to "prove" infallibility is 33:33,
but if you read it carefully it disproves their assertions.

33:33,
"...And Allah only wishes to REMOVE all ABOMINATION(or keep away uncleanliness) from you,ye members of the Family(or Oh People of the House),and to PURIFY you thoroughly(or to make you pure and spotless)."

If they are infallible from birth to death as the shia believe,then why does Allah want to REMOVE ABOMINATION and PURIFY them?
Surely they would have no abomination to remove and no need to be purified,as they would already be pure and spotless.

Brothers and sisters it is ALLAH(SWT) alone who is incapable of making mistakes,errors or sins and He alone has no defects,faults or imperfections.

All created beings are capable of making mistakes as they are NOT ALL-KNOWING and ALL-WISE,only Allah(SWT)is.

Many thanks for listening,Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

nadeem, i certainly hope that u are not one of those that reads the Quran in english without the arabic reference?
maybe u and other need to take a closer look! its sad to be witness to that people use their time to find spots on the Prophet of allah!
Ill only comment the verses stated by you above:

4:105-106 The plural pronoun in verse 109 makes it clear that in verse 106 the Muslims have been asked, through the Holy Prophet, to beg forgiveness of Allah for expecting favouritism from the Holy Prophet.
its not the Prophet asking for forgiveness!

and what happened to 16:61, i didnt get the that!

33:37 "You did fear the people" implies that the right course should be followed, whether the people like it or not, as said in verse 54 of Ma-idah: "They fear not the censure of the censurers."


40:55 By isolating wastaghfir lidhambika from its context the preconceived antagonism of the Christian commentators led them to believe that the Holy Prophet was not free from sinning; so a sinner cannot purify other sinners.

The word ghafar means to cover or protect, so istighfar means seeking protection. Zanb means an act of inadvertence or an unintentional shortcoming which is quite different from ithm (peculiarly intentional sin).

Wastaghfir lidhambika actually means "seek protection (of your Lord) against (any natural or unintentional) shortcoming". Protection is sought before any untoward or undesireable event takes place, not after a calamity afflicts. When a sin is committed forgiveness and pardon is sought, not protection.

The Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt were thoroughly purified by Allah (Ahzab: 33). In Maryam: 51 Allah says that Musa was freed from all impurities. The status of the Holy Prophet is much higher than Musa and all other prophets. read Ali Imran: 81; Baqarah: 253, 285 and Bani Israil: 1. According to Hijr: 39; Araf : 16 and 17 and Ibrahim: 22, it is Shaytan who allures man unto sin, and Nahl: 99 and Hijr: 40 say that he has no authority over the purified servants of Allah. So all the prophets of Allah are infallible. They always sought the protection of their Lord against the efforts of Shaytan. As verse 27 of Anbiya says: "They speak not before He speaks; and they always act by His command."

Every prophet of Allah had a natural inclination to seek goodness from Allah for his followers. He felt that their welfare was his responsibility. He treated their happiness or salvation as his own. So he always sought pardon and forgiveness for his people as he would do for his own self, and therefore he was addressed in person at many places in the Quran instead of his followers; and commandments intended for the people were addressed to the prophet. For example in Araf: 150 and 151, although the people had worshipped the calf, Musa prays to seek protection for himself and his brother Harun, using the same words: Rabbigh-firli wa li-akhi (O Lord grant protection to me and my brother).

In Baqarah: 286, man has been taught to pray: "wa-fu anna waghfirlana warhamna (our Lord, pardon us, and grant us protection, and have mercy on us)." For pardon afu, and for protection against sinning in future ighfir have been used. In verse 25 of Bani Israil ghafar (protection) is promised for those who do deeds of righteousness, not for those who do evil, so protection becomes reward. In verse 7 of this surah the angels who bear the arsh seek protection (yastaghfiruna) for the believers, otherwise to seek pardon for those who believe in Allah, do good and follow His religion becomes meaningless. In verse 8 of Tahrim first the believers will be purified and freed from all traces of evil, then they will be admitted into the paradise where they shall pray: "O Lord, perfect for us our light and grant us protection." If instead of protection, pardon is used, then it carries no meaning.

Baqarah: 129, 151 ; Ali Imran: 164; Bara-at: 103 and Jumu-ah: 2 clearly make known that it is the Holy Prophet who was sent by Allah with a prerogative to purify mankind.


41:6 The bringer of the message was not an angel nor a god, but, in appearance, a man like them, so that there should have been no barrier between him and his hearers. "I am a man like you" has been qualified by "it is revealed to me." So a man chosen for receiving revelation and conveying it as bashir and naghir must be the uniquely superior most individual among all the created beings, endowed with very special singular powers of intellect, understanding, wisdom, conscience and application. Like him are his true inheritors So to treat the Holy Prophet like other ordinary men is the policy of those who try to undermine the true position of the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, in order to highlight the ordinary abilities of rulers in the eyes of the people. They want to rule and dominate. The life accounts of the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt establish beyond all doubts that they were not like the ordinary men who surrounded them as companions.
Quran states several times that Jibril came down as bashir/man, is he like us too??? Read 5:15 where the Prophet is created of "noor"!!!

47:19 AGAIN THE SAME THING AS ABOVE, BUT ILL REPEAT IT WITH A DIFFERENT ANGLE!:
47:15] A parable of the garden which those guarding (against evil) are promised: Therein are rivers of water that does not alter, and rivers of milk the taste whereof does not change, and rivers of drink delicious to those who drink, and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein are all fruits and protection from their Lord. (Are these) like those who abide in the fire and who are made to drink boiling water so it rends their bowels asunder.

The word maghfirat used in this verse confirms our interpretation of this word in verse 55 of Mumin. It means protection not pardon, otherwise it must be concluded that the dwellers of paradise will also transgress and sin in the land of eternal bliss and will be pardoned and forgiven by Allah now and again.
AND FEW COMMENTS FOR FURTHER ;The Holy Prophet is commanded to seek Allah's protection "from falling into errors in future" for the believing men and women so that they may follow his pattern of life. Forgiveness is sought for the sins already committed in the past and protection is sought against the errors (one has not committed) as a precaution that may keep the seekers of protection from falling into the trap prepared by Shaytan and his comrades.
Every thought or deed influences character formation which will be the main asset at the time of reckoning before the Lord who knows the seen as well as the unseen, therefore every sincere believer must always pray to seek Allah's protection against falling into the trap of sin and evil.

48:1-2 If even a fleeting thought crosses the mind at the mention of "sinning and being forgiven" to connect it with the conduct of the Holy Prophet, it must be condemned as the worst form of blasphemy.
In the light of what has been written in the commentary of several verses so far studied, the sublime, superior-most and infallible nature of the Holy Prophet's being rules out any possibility, however far-fetched, of laying a sinful act on his doorstep.

Verses 2 to 9 of Najm alone are enough to establish the fact that if any one dares to slander the Holy Prophet with the outlandish conjecture that "as, after all, he was a human being it was natural for him to make mistakes", he is accusing Allah of making those mistakes.

About the messengers and prophets of Allah the Quran says:

(i) They have been freed from any possibility of sinning.

(ii) Shaytan has no authority over them.

(iii) They follow nothing but revelation revealed to them by Allah.

(iv) They are always on the right path. So every man prays to Allah to keep him on the path of His chosen representatives (Fatihah: 7).

The word zanb should be interpreted as the shortcomings necessitated by the nature of creation in all created beings, because Allah, the creator, is alone above and free of all inherent or intrinsic shortcomings. This is the fact towards which the Quran points out when it is said therein that Allah has freed His prophets from shortcomings and that the holy Ahl ul Bayt have been thoroughly purified, which is the result of ghafar (protection) He grants to His chosen servants.

Ghafir in this verse refers to the redress made available by His grace, otherwise victory in any sense cannot be the cause of forgiveness of any misdeed done under the influence of evil.

Zanb here refers to the state of mind of the Holy Prophet in view of the opposition of the disbelievers and the hypocrites to retard the progress of Islam, which came to an end by the decisive victory mentioned in verse one, political as well as spiritual. It is these kind of shortcomings which can be removed by the victory, or it can prevent its recurrence in future-the completion of Allah's favour on the Holy Prophet.

66:1 I hope u dont mean that this verse is referring to The Prophet?

75:16-19 The word tuhibbuna in plural indicates that the people are addressed in verse 16, not the Holy Prophet, and points out the human nature referred to above. Those who use intellect and reasoning, control and discipline the nature of enjoying the fleeting life are able to surrender themselves to the will of Allah and follow His guidance.

My comment is proved by this Quranic verse. (35:32) Then We gave the Book for an inheritance to those whom We chose from among Our servants; but of them is he who makes his soul to suffer a loss, and of them is he who takes a middle course, and of them is he who is foremost in deeds of goodness by Allah's permission; this is the great excellence.
The opening words say that Allah has bequeathed the holy book, the Quran, to His chosen servants. The chosen servants of Allah could be only those who are rightly guided by their knowledge of the word of Allah.

The correct knowledge could be only that which has been given by Allah Himself. Thus it would mean those who are described in the Quran as rasikhunafil ilm, firmly rooted in knowledge (Ali Imran : 7, 33, 34; Nisa: 54 and 162; Anam : 89; Bani Israil: 107; Mayram: 58 to 63 an Ankabut: 49). erses 77 to 79 of Waqi-ah say that the knowledge of the Quran is given to the thoroughly purified only and verse 33 of Ahzab clearly defines the thoroughly purified, who are none but the Ahl ul Bayt of the Holy Prophet ( Ahzab: 33). It is to be noted that the honour of being chosen by Allah applies to the whole group, that is, to all the holy Imams of the Ahl ul Bayt to whom the Quran was entrusted This inference is in complete harmony with the well-known declaration of the Holy Prophet commonly known as hadith al thaqalayn .

80:1-10 : Some commentators say that the pronoun "he" in abasa refers to the Holy Prophet who disliked the interruption at a time when he was engrossed in earnest discourse with some of the pagan Quraysh leaders.

As has been mentioned in the commentary of many verses, particularly Baqarah: 78; Mumin: 55; Fat-h: 2 and Muhammad: 15 to 19, a large number of Muslim scholars try to find out imaginary weaknesses in the character of the Holy Prophet so as to minimise the actual shortcomings, deviation and waywardness found in the companions whom they present as heroes of Islam. It is a preconceived plan to bring the infallible status of the Holy Prophet to the ordinary level of temporal rulers, which has been fully exposed in the commentary of above noted verses.

Ill finish off with this versre: 68:4 And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.

and ill come back with the verses regarding prophet Yunus (as)

i ask for people to use time and logic, and have in mind; is the Quran in contradiction here? ...regarding this issue and others (the answer should be no!)

malcolmx

[hasan]

..if Angels had been using Earth as their abode then we would have sent down to them an Angel..
Reflect on this and read, but keep in mind that the quran allows itself to be its best commentary...

Hasan Demirkol

[Nadeem]

Salaam,

Many thanks for your feedback,but I think that you have NOT explained yourself properly!

I never accused the Holy Prophet(saaws) of any sin at all.

I only said that all created beings have their shortcomings and are liable to make errors or mistakes,Only ALLAH(SWT)ALONE is free from all imperfections as HE is the only ONE who is ALL-KNOWING and ALL-WISE!A fact which you also agreed with.

The word "wastaghfir" explicitly means to ask FORGIVENESS as you well know and the word "AUZHU" OR "AUDHU" means to ask for PROTECTION.

I never tried to undermine the Prophet's(saaws) position and how dare you accuse us of such things.

I was only referring to what Allah(SWT) Himself has said in the Qur'an,and I ask His forgiveness for any mistakes in understanding His words.

Also I do look at the Arabic because that is what the real Qur'an is in.

You cannot deny that Yunus (as) committed a wrongdoing as he himself admits in the verse 21:87,so how can you now defend your concept of infallibility?Also I would like a comprehensive definition of the word "masoom" as used in Qur'anic grammar please.

In fact I know of nowhere in the Qur'an where anyone is categorically stated as being "masoom" or infallible from birth to death.

I think we need to consult good Arabic dictionaries and look up definitions for better understanding,may Allah help us ,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Sorry I forgot to ask you who VERSE 66:1 is addressed to if NOT the Holy Prophet(saaws) and I also do not like your opinion that I am committing blasphemy!!!!!!!!I am only trying to understand the Qur'an and why it uses those words in relation to His Messenger(saaws) and other prophets(as).If I make a mistake then He is forgiving enough,because I am NOT infallible!!

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

just a quick commment before i answer your questions.
66:1 is about the Prophet(PBUH, iam sorry,my fault! and i have an answer for you, but since we agree, i think, that there is no contradictions in the Quran, what do you think this verse is about? i would like to hear your opinion, please!

still i dont get ur question, u say:"I am only trying to understand the Qur'an and why it uses those words in relation to His Messenger(saaws) and other prophets(as)"

did you understand my comments about those words? if not please specify which words!

and ill get back with the Prophet Yunus with ur answers.

malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/21/2004 21:56:22

[mastermind]

Assalam o alaikum to all.I am Nadeem and have just joined the forum after reading mastermind's impressive refutation of shia falsehood.
I had some heated dabate with shias in al-hewar.com and realised that they use a lot of trickery when they are caught out and try to confuse everybody by deliberately misquoting you.

I hope that Allah(swt) allows their narrow minds to open up to the truth,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.


Brother Nadeem

Asalamoalaikum

Thank you for your nice and encouraging compliments , well the reason why my shia brothers try to use trick in their debate when they are caught is because it is part of their technique.
When the truth is not clear,shias try to argue to confuse their sunni brothers without presenting the truth.

Allah Hafiz



Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[Nadeem]

Salaam and it's so nice to hear from you brother mastermind,I thought you had gone away!lol. YES I am once again in deep debate with a shia as you may have gathered and I wonder if you have any comments to make on the topics concerned.

I have realised as before that the shia ALWAYS TWIST THE MEANINGS OF THE QUR'ANIC AYAHS AND TRY TO CHANGE THE ARABIC LANGUAGE TO SUIT THEIR BELIEFS.Rather than to mould their beliefs according to correct interpretation of Qur'anic ayahs.

I look forward to interesting debate and to learn more about the REAL TRUTH.Ameen,Wasalaam.

[Nadeem]

Salaam and it's so nice to hear from you brother mastermind,I thought you had gone away!lol. YES I am once again in deep debate with a shia as you may have gathered and I wonder if you have any comments to make on the topics concerned.

I have realised as before that the shia ALWAYS TWIST THE MEANINGS OF THE QUR'ANIC AYAHS AND TRY TO CHANGE THE ARABIC LANGUAGE TO SUIT THEIR BELIEFS.Rather than to mould their beliefs according to correct interpretation of Qur'anic ayahs.

I look forward to interesting debate and to learn more about the REAL TRUTH.Ameen,Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

Okay so we AGREE that all created beings have their shortcomings and that Allah(SWT) ALONE is free of all imperfections and has NO shortcomings.This is what the Qur'an is basically telling us.

Now to come to the definition of "masoom" or infallible as you understand it,I would like you to choose between the following in order to be clear.

a) free from all imperfections and having no shortcomings at all from birth to death.
b) free from sin but still human and therefore having some shortcomings and limitations.

I have looked up the words ghafar in an 2 Arabic dictionaries and the meaning is CLEARLY to FORGIVE,they don't say anything about protection.

The words listed for protect are "hasmi","sazha" and "waqi".
For protection the words are "himayah", "siyanah" and "wiqayah".

Sorry I will continue,my net time is almost up.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

continued.

I have also looked up "cover" and "to forgive" is NOT one of the corresponding Arabic words.So I don't know where you got your POOR knowledge of Arabic language from.

I would choose a) as the most accurate and correct definition of "masoom".In which case NO created being is infallible as we have both clearly agreed.

For the purpose of our beliefs definition b) is the ONLY ONE which is suitable.So we agree that Prophets(as) are generally free from sin but are still human and have SOME shortcomings and limitations.
A shortcoming is a fault,defect,mistake or error.That is what the Qur'an is telling us in those ayahs I listed.

I have not had any response regarding my opinion of 33:33 and it's meaning in relation to infallibility and I still await to see an ayah which CLEARLY states someone to be "masoom" using that very word!!!

As regards 16:61,obviously Allah(SWT) is telling us that we all live due to His Mercy,for if He were to punish us,He would not leave a SINGLE creature on Earth,including His Prophets(as).Unless I am mistaken!!!!!!

I hope I have made my position very CLEAR and I look forward to your responses.Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

Thanks for posting your propaganda regarding shia's. thats nice!!!I dont know what your problem is!

Well, i have given u so much to read, and what did u draw from that.
If you can go back, then you will find my definition of the prophets ragarding their will and action.

What kind of shortcoming are we talking about? If you can explain me this, you will have your translation!

Ok, before i write on other subjects I will try to end this one!

These words show that Allah sent them to bring the good tidings and to warn; and sent the book with them (and this was the "revelation"), so that they might guide the people to true belief and true deeds. This was the aim and object of Allah in appointing the prophets. And He says: errs not my Lord, nor does He forget. (20:52) It proves that Allah errs not in His action, and makes no mistakes in His affairs; when He wills a thing, He wills it in its proper way which creates the desired effect without fail; when He proceeds with a work, the result is produced without any mistake. It is as it should be, because in His hand is creation and command, and for Him is power and judgment. And He sends prophets by revealing to them the true knowledge of religion and teaching it to them and without fail it must be so; of necessity the prophets must receive and understand the revelation correctly; and He sends them to communicate that revelation to their people, and without fail it must be so; without any error or mistake they must communicate it as Allah has willed. Allah says: Surely Allah attains His purpose; Allah indeed has made a measure for everything (65:3); and Allah is predominant over His affair. (12:21)

The Knower of the Unseen; so He does not reveal His secrets to any except to him whom He chooses for an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him, so that He may know that they have indeed delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He takes account of everything. (72:26-28) It is clear that Allah reserves His revelation for His messengers; so He reveals His secrets to them and supports them by guarding them from in front of them and behind them; and encompasses what is with them to protect the revelation from decay and alteration, whether that alteration comes from Satan or others; and it is done to make sure that they have indeed correctly delivered the messages of their Lord. Another verse reports the words of the angels of revelation: and we do not come down but by the command of your Lord; His is whatever is before us and whatever is behind us and whatever is between these; and your Lord is not forgetful. (19:64) These verses prove that the revelation right from. the start of its descent, to its reaching down to the prophets and up to its communication and delivery to the people is duly protected and guarded against change and alteration, from whatever source it might come.

For an average man, actions speaks as loudly as, if not louder than, words. If someone does a certain thing, ‑his action proves that in his eyes that work is good and lawful; it is as if he was announcing its legality and virtue in so many words. If a prophet committed a sin, while he forbade it to his people, it would mean that he was preaching two contradictory things: his action allowed a thing, while his words forbade it. Thus he would be preaching two things contradictory to each other. And preaching contradictory things is against the preaching of truth, because one order would belie and invalidate the other. One who reports two contradictory items cannot be said to be reporting the truth. Therefore, 'ismah of the prophet in delivering the message of Allah totally depends upon his 'ismah from the sins.

There are many other verses which prove 'ismah of the prophets in all its aspects:‑ (Find out the meaning of 'ismah)

(a) These are they whom Allah has guided; therefore, follow their guidance. (6:90) All the prophets were decidedly guided by Allah. And Allah says: and whomsoever Allah lets go astray, there is no guide for him; and whom Allah guides, there is none that can lead him astray; is not Allah Mighty, the Lord of retribution? (39:36-37) Also He says: whomsoever Allah guides, he is the rightly guided one. (18:17) According to these verses those who are guided by Allah can never be led astray by any misleading agency. In other words, they are free from all misguidance; and every sin is a misguidance, as is shown by the words of Allah, Did I not enjoin on you, 0 children of Adam! that you should not worship the, Satan? Surely he is your open enemy, and that you should worship Me; this is the right way. And certainly he led astray a great multitude from among you. What! could not then understand? (36:60-62) In this verse, Allah counts every sin as going astray, a misguidance as a result of the agency of Satan; at the same time regarding it as the wor*ship of Satan. Looking at all the above verses we find that Allah guided all the prophets by His guidance. Anyone guided by Allah's guidance can never be misled, can never go astray. Every sin is a misguidance; every sin is straying from the right path.

It follows that the prophets of Allah were sinless, free from every sin and protected from every mistake in receiving and delivering the revelation of Allah.

(b) And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed the favors of the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the righteous ones; and excellent are these as companions! (4:69)

Also He says: Keep us on the right path, the path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray. (1:5-7)

The prophets are described as of those upon whom Allah has bestowed His favors; and those upon whom Allah's favors have been bestowed are other than those who have gone astray. It means that the prophets never went astray. If they had commit*ted a sin, they would have gone astray (as explained above). Also, if they had committed any error or mistake in receiving or com*municating the revelation, they would have gone astray. Therefore, the two verses together prove the 'ismah of the prophet~ in all these aspects.

(c) These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, of the prophets of the posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the signs of the Beneficent (God) were recited to them, they fell down prostrating (in obeisance) and weeping. But there followed after them an evil generation, who neglected prayer and followed sensual desires, so they shall soon meet (the result of their) sin. (19:58-59)

This verse attributes two virtues to the prophets: first, the bestowing of favors (upon whom He bestowed favors); second, guidance (whom We guided and chose). Then it goes on praising them for the highest degree of obedience, devoutness and humility before Allah. Afterwards, it condemns the unworthy following generation for their evil traits. Obviously, we see here two opposite groups: one, the praiseworthy ones deserving to be honored by Allah; the other, the condemned ones. This second group has been described as those who followed sensual desires and who will soon see the result of their sins. It clearly means that the first group, i.e. the prophets, did not follow their desires and will not be overtaken by sin. Such sincere servants of Allah could not commit any sin, even before their appointment as prophets. Had they committed any sin even before their receiving prophethood, they would have surely come under the condemnation, neglected prayer and followed sensual desires, so they shall soon meet (the result of their) sin. But, as we explained, theirs is a group of diametrically opposite to the condemned ones.

This Qur'anic proof is somewhat similar to the rational proof given for the 'ismah of the prophets, which is as follows:‑

The sending of the prophets and the showing of miracles in their hands is the confirmation of their words. It means that they cannot tell a lie. Also, it is an endorsement that they have the ability to communicate the message of Allah to their people. But a man who indulges in sins and such actions as would harm a pro*ject, cannot be said to be qualified to preach the usefulness of that project or to invite the people to participate in it. Therefore, when Allah showed miracles in the hands of the prophets it not only authenticated their claim of prophethood, but also confirmed that they could not commit error in receiving ‑and delivering the divine revelation, and that they faithfully obeyed all the com*mands of Allah and desisted from all such things which were disliked by Allah. In other words, they were sinless in all its aspects.

(d) And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission . . . (4:64) The aim of sending an apostle is that he be obeyed, and the verse confines the aim to only this one thing. People should obey the apostle in both his words and actions, because preaching is done in both ways. And both these aspects of obedience are covered by Allah's permission. If an apostle erred in understanding the revelation or in its deli*very, it would still be Allah's will, according to this verse, that people should obey and follow him. But Allah only permits truth. How can His permission be related to an error or mistake? Thus, it is clear that an apostle cannot err in receiving or delivering a revelation. Likewise, if an apostle were to commit a sin, in words or actions, an impossible situation would arise. Sin is disliked by Allah, forbidden by Him. But the verse enjoins people to obey and follow their apostle. Thus that same sin would, at the same time, be for the people an act of obedience which they would be required to follow and copy. It would mean that Allah had, at one and the same time, willed it and not willed it, ordered it and forbade it; liked it and disliked it! As explained earlier, it would be an impossible order. We do not mean an order to do an im*possible work (which, some do say, can be given by Allah!); we mean that giving such an order is in itself an impossibility, because it would be, at one and the same time, an order and a non‑order, a will and non‑will, a liking and non‑liking, a praise and no praise, a condemnation and non‑condemnation!!

(e) so that there may not remain any argument for people against Allah, after the apostles ... (4:165) It is clear that Allah wills to intercept the excuse which people might think of for their sins and disobedience; and that the only way of dismissing such excuse is by sending the apostles to them. The coming of the apostles could cut their excuse short only if the apostles themselves desisted from all those things which Allah does not like ‑ be it in word or action. Otherwise, people could easily give their apostles' sins and mistakes as their excuse, and that argu*ment would be valid against Allah. Therefore, if Allah had sent a non-masum apostle, He would have defeated His own purpose.
the verse, Surely my Lord is on the straight path (11:56), and Surely Allah attains His purpose; Allah indeed has made a measure for every thing (65:3) prove that every happening depends on a cause which brings it into being. Now in the case of a prophet, we see that all his actions throughout his life are invariably correct, proper and in obedience to Him. This firm and unchanging characteristic shows that there must be a faculty in his soul which protects him from committing any sin or mistakes, and causes all his actions to be in accordance with the commands of Allah. And that faculty is 'ismah.

It is accepted that all actions of a prophet occur by his own will, as do our own actions. But his actions are always in obedience to Him, while our actions are sometimes in obedience and sometimes in disobedience. An action is said to occur by our will when it is based on our knowledge and discretion. Our actions differ in obedience and disobedience because of a difference in the knowledge and will from which they emanate. If our knowledge and will demand to fulfill the dictates of servitude by obeying the divine command, obedience comes into being. If, on the other hand, our knowledge and will prefer the pursuit of pleasure and the satisfaction of lust, then disobedience and sin occur. In short, the difference in the quality of our actions, obedience or disobedience, is caused by the difference in our knowledge and will. Had our knowledge and will remained un*changed throughout our life, all our actions would have been of one type only ‑ either a life‑long obedience to Allah, or, God forbid, an unbroken chain of sins. As the actions of a prophet are invariably. according to the dictates of piety and in obedience to Him, it follows that the knowledge and will from which his actions emanate are healthy ones, invariably good and virtuous. In other words, it is ingrained in his mind and soul that he must always serve and obey Allah. It is this firmly‑rooted knowledge which is called a faculty, characteristics or trait, like the faculty of chastity, of bravery, of justice, and so on. When we admit that a prophet always obeys Allah and never commits any sin, we accept that he possesses a spiritual quality or faculty which always keeps him on right path and protects him from sin and mistakes. And that faculty is 'ismah
If we say that a prophet does not have this spiritual faculty or characteristic (while it is known that he does not commit any sin or mistake) then it would mean that this unchanging habit (i.e. always following the divine command and desisting from mistake and sin) is not related to any spiritual or psychological trait of his own ‑ in other words, it is caused directly by the will of Allah, and that the prophet has no choice, option or will of his own in his actions; in short his actions are not caused by his knowledge and will. But it is already admitted that the actions of the prophet are based on his knowledge and will just like those of other human beings.

Now before i end this huge messege, ill ask you a question: when did Isa (as), become a prophet? was it from birth? Or?

[IronEagle]

"This verse and other verses like it in praise of the companions of the Holy Prophet, whether muhajirs or ansar, are applicable only to those who were sincere in faith. The hypocrites, who were also "companions" (sahabah) as per its definition laid down by the Muslim scholars, cannot be accepted as those praised by the Quran. So to say that all the companions, even the deserters, were true believers is illogical and contrary to historical facts."

I think better comparision for this one would be with ayat related to christians and jews. It clearly states there are two types of them (christians & jews) good & bad. If that was the problem with the companions that migrated with Prophet(pbuh) than I think it would have been stated.

As for the deserters, I don't know what you mean by deserters. If you are talking about a battle than we don't know who ran away from battle (remember you said we are using Quran only?)
Not to mention, Allah is forgiving.

Anyways whats the point of this whole argument?

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I am sorry for the "propaganda" but I was really being as truthful as possible.

You did try to confuse people with your incorrect definitions of Arabic words "wastaghfir lidhanbika".So I had to consult 2 Arabic dictionaries to correct you,and still await your comments on this issue!

We are going in circles here,I never said that the prophets(as) committed any error or mistake in conveying Allah's(swt)revelations.
That is NOT what the Qur'an tells us!You admitted that all created beings have their shortcomings and AGREED wih me that Allah(swt) alone is free of all imperfections!Are you now disagreeing with me??

Please can you tell me what you understand by "shortcoming" since you introduce dthe word in our discussion.I have already given you enough ayahs of the Holy Qur'an portraying some shortcomings and could give more but ONLY ONE is enough to make my point that nobody is 100% "masoom" or infallible.

You also did NOT tell me which of my 2 definitions of infallible you would choose for your beliefs.Although you indicated definition b) when you agreed with me regarding the shortcomings of created beings(inc prophets,as)and that Allah(swt) alone is free of all imperfections.

I am still awaiting your comments on my explanation of sura 33:33.

Isa(as) was a prophet since his birth as he himself says during the miracle in the cradle as reported in the Qur'an.

I once again apologise for any offence caused,but all the same you never apologise when you offend people;
Assuming I have no knowledge of Arabic and trying to accuse me of blasphemy when I was only trying to understand Allah's(swt) words.

If you cannot answer my points then why bother writing long essays trying to confuse everyone by avoiding the real issues at hand??
You might as well resign.Wasalaam.


"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

This is my definition (the a and b you are looking for):
"...the (human) soul certainly incites evil, UNLESS my lord do bestow His Mercy... (12:53)"
Now, the prophets or the messengers, are among the exception as Allah (SWT) has indicated. That is, there is something in the soul of these virtuous HUMANS that precludes the incitement of evil, and as such they never commit it. Their virtue is so high that they never even think of committing a sin. It is NOT that if a prophet or a messenger wanted to commit a sin, he can't; rather, it is that "Mercy," mentioned in the above verse, that is bestowed upon him from Allah (SWT) that precludes him from doing so. As such, he is sinless and infallible even though they have full ability of committing any kind of sin.

This is what i said; Wastaghfir lidhambika actually means "seek protection (of your Lord) against (any natural or unintentional) shortcoming". In referance to 40:55.
And I will make my comment on this, but i want to ask you which fault/error is the Prophet seeking forgiveness for? As I wrote before, you might see the translation differently. You are for sure aware of that one word can have different meaning in the Quranic verses? If there is no fault, then there is no pardon, rather protection!

Now if you go back to my postage, you can see that I wrote; "So he always sought pardon and forgiveness for his people as he would do for his own self, and therefore he was addressed in person at many places in the Quran instead of his followers...;" (so shortcoming here is for the followers)

and same postage further down: "In Baqarah: 286, man has been taught to pray: "wa-fu anna waghfirlana warhamna (our Lord, pardon us, and grant us protection, and have mercy on us)." For pardon afu, and for protection against sinning in future ighfir have been used. In verse 25 of Bani Israil ghafar (protection) is promised for those who do deeds of righteousness, not for those who do evil, so protection becomes reward. In verse 7 of this surah the angels who bear the arsh seek protection (yastaghfiruna) for the believers, otherwise to seek pardon for those who believe in Allah, do good and follow His religion becomes meaningless. In verse 8 of Tahrim first the believers will be purified and freed from all traces of evil, then they will be admitted into the paradise where they shall pray: "O Lord, perfect for us our light and grant us protection." If instead of protection, pardon is used, then it carries no meaning."

Are you with me on this reasoning, obove in bold? that pardon might not be the right word here

Iam very sincere in my writing and not trying to change the words to benefit me, and i too apologise for any offence caused. Iam merely looking at this from a logical point of view from my side!

I will comment on 33:33, and on Prophet Yunus, iam not trying to avoid that, i just want to get past this stage, otherwise this postage would also be very long!

malcolmx





Edited by - malcolmx on 03/23/2004 19:41:12

[Saqeb]

Bissmillarah ma nira heem.Dear sunni brothers I see that a few of you have surrounded my dear shia brother,yet you cannot keep him at bay.The truth is that I myself am shia and what my dear brother writes is the truth all you need to is go out and research not just ahle sunnat books but shia literature aswell to get a broader picture of the whole truth.You say that we blame umar and bakr for various things,yet why do you burn when we say NARA E HAIDRY! dear sunni brothers read about baaghe fadak.Why did your caliphs deny the prophets daughter her inheritance of the land,even though the qoran states "He that alters a will after hearing it shall be accountable for his crime. God hears all and knows all." Abubakr deliberately teared the prophet's will, and inshallah he will be accountable for his hideous crime.

One last question to put salt in your wounds, Where is your caliph Uthman's shrine? I have looked all over and cannot find where he is buried! Also how did Aishah the prophet's wife die?

Than You for reading my post, and I will be looking forward to your answers.
Hudahafiz
Saqeb

[malcolmx]

asalam saqeb

thank you for your message, but since none of us beliefs in eachothers, and their own hadith, so its best to stick to the Quran!

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

nadeem

take into account this verse also with my reply:

We did not send a messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah’s permission; and had they, when they had done injustice to themselves, come to you and asked Allah’s forgiveness; and the messenger (also) had asked pardon for them, surely, they would have found Allah oft-returning, merciful” (4:64)”.

malcolmx

[katta]

hi, well malcom and saqeb, there is no point arguiing with these ppl. u give them all the proove and still they will not believe you. MASTERMIND and NADEEM and RONNIE....can you refute this:
i bet not, immediate response required, no digressions no ramblings.

please have a look at all these narrations from sunni books:
When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out

and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."
Sunni References:
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120
- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Also:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and
some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:
"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or
I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword
drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand
so they jumped over him and seized him."

Sunni Reference: History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

In the footnotes of the same page (p187) in the English version of the
History of al-Tabari the translator has commented:

Although the timing is not clear, it seems that Ali and his group
came to know about Saqifa after what had happened there. At this
point, his supporters gathered in Fatimah's house. Abu Bakr and
Umar, fully aware of Ali's claims and fearing a serious threat from
his supporters, summoned him to the mosque to swear the oath of
allegiance. Ali refused, and so the house was surrounded by an armed
band led by Abu Bakr and Umar, who threatened to set it on fire if
Ali and his supporters refused to come out and swear allegiance to
Abu Bakr. The scene grew violent and Fatimah was furious. (See Ansab
^Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri in his , v1, pp 582-586; Tarikh Ya'qubi,
v2, p116; al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20).

Abu Bakr said on the authority of an authentic report that, after the
demise of the holy Prophet when the people had paid fealty to him, Ali and
Zubair used to go to Fatimah al-Zahra, daughter of the Prophet, for
consultation. When this fact was known to Umar, he went to Fatimah and
said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I
loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as
you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble
here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from
setting your house on fire."
Sunni references:
- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH
- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,
and pp 19-20
- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362
- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah


Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know
that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this
will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in
your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Sunni reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

In fact Shibli Numani himself testifies the above event in the following
words:
"From Umar's irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his
part was not improbable."
Sunni reference: al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44

[Nadeem]

Peace,

Malcolm x,

I keep on telling you that I never said that the Prophet(saaws) committed any sins!!Why do you keep misquoting me and putting words into my mouth???I was only agreeing with the Qur'an that he had some shortcomings which Allah(swt) told him to ask forgiveness for,I never said that he sinned intentionally or at all,can you get this through your head???????????

You have already agreed with me and then decided to disagree,I don't know why you can't stick to ONE decision,is it so hard??

All creaatures have their shortcomings ,only Allah(swt) alone is free of ALL imperfections.Agree or disagree?

I also await to see a Qur'anic ayah labelling anyone as "masoom"(infallible) using that word!!!

You wrote"So he always sought pardon and forgiveness for his people as he WOULD DO FOR HIMSELF,so therefore he was addressed himself at many places in the Qur'an instead of his followers(I do not agree,because Allah,swt, addresses the believers at many places as "Oh you who believe").So the shortcoming referes to his followers!!
I disagree because look at sura 47:19 where the Holy Prophet(saaws) is commanded to ask forgiveness for himself AND ALSO the believing men and women!!!!!

47:19,
"Know,therefore(Oh Muhammad) that there is no god but Allah and ask frgiveness for THY FAULT AND for the men and women who believe....."

Wastaghfir obviously means "to ask forgiveness" otherwise why would the translaters and commentators translate it as that and not as "to ask for protection or cover"????They have much better knowledge of Arabic than all of us lot!!!!

SALAAM(PEACE) TO ALL.AMEEN.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Peace katta and saqib,

look guys we all have our beliefs ,so who are you to decide what anyone believes?As for proof,yes I have given plenty of that to support my points but you have given none.

Just tell me where in the Qur'an it is stated that anyone is "masoom"(infallible) using that very word and I will believe you!!!

Peace to all.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[katta]

hey dont overlook my post, answer it fisrt .as it is directly related with the topic. try refuting it. iam waiting.

[malcolmx]

asalam

what is the definition of a shortcoming! please show me a shortcoming, of the prophet(PBUH)?
malcolmx

[Nadeem]

Hey katta,

You said in your first post that there is no point in arguing with these people(meaning us),so why are you doing what you consider pointless?Are you so messed up?

Your topic has nothing to do with my discussion of "infallibility" with malcolm x!

WE HAVE ALL DECIDED TO STICK TO THE HOLY QUR'AN BECAUSE BOTH SIDES CLAIM TO BELIEVE IT!!!

Sadly though both sides have differing interpretations of the Holy Book so there is little chance of any agreement or reconciliation!!!

So why don't you show me where anyone is called "masoom" in the Qur'an using that word and I'll gladly believe you!!!

Otherwise stop wasting your time in "pointless arguments with me".


"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Peace malcolm x,

I have already defined it ,did you miss it,here it is again.

Shortcoming= fault,weakness,error,mistake etc.

Remember it was you who first used that word and agreed that all creatures(including prophets,as) have them and only Allah(swt) alone is free of all imperfections!!!Are you now changing your mind and saying that there are others besides Allah(swt) who are also free of all imperfections???It sounds like a kind of SHIRK to me!!

Please can you proceed and answer the remaining questions as I don't think we can resolve this dispute about "shortcoming" until you make your mind up if you agree with me or not,you keep switching.

Peace.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Hey katta stop using weak sources and stick to the Holy Qur'an with your arguments with me,many thanks.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Peace malcolm x,

Sorry I forgot to point out a shortcoming so here are 2: sura 66:1,
"Oh Prophet,why dost thou hold forbidden that which Allah has made lawful ..."

Here is a misunderstanding where the Prophet(saaws) considers his cousin Zeinab bint Jhash(ra) to be forbidden to him to marry,while ALLAH(SWT) corrects him and declares that it is lawful.

This is a shortcoming as well,a mistake,misunderstanding on the Prophet's(saaws) part.

Sura 80:1-2,
"He(Prophet) frowned"
"(And turned away)when the blind man came to him interrupting....."

Here the Prophet(saaws) was busy explaining islam to some rich merchants when suddenly Abdullah ibn Makhtum approached him interrupting,so the Prophet(saaws) became annoyed at the interruption and turned away frowning,due to human weakness.

Now please will you answer the other questions before diving headlong into trying to refute these with your interpretation of the Holy Qur'an!!!!
Peace.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam'

66:1
A-isha and Hafsa, has been discussed in the light of the traditions reported by Bukhari and other well known Muslim scholars.
The Holy Prophet used to drink a glass of honey-syrup whenever he visited the apartment of Zaynab. A-isha and Hafsa became resentful, and A-isha devised a plot. Knowing the Holy Prophet's dislike of unpleasant smells she held her nose when he came to her apartment after drinking a glass of honey-syrup prepared by Zaynab, and accused him of having eaten the produce of a very ill-smelling tree. When she accused him of having eaten maghafir (a nauseating herb) the Holy Prophet said that he had taken only honey. She said: "The bees had fed on maghafir." When he visited Hafsa she also acted just like A-isha. Displeased with their obnoxious behaviour the Holy Prophet vowed not to eat honey any more. This is recorded by Bukhari in his commentary on Tahrim, in his Sahih, Vol. 3, p. 136. In the same place are recorded several traditions as related by Umar bin Khattab stating that the two women, A-isha and Hafsa were insolent and haughty towards the Holy Prophet.

On a day assigned to Hafsa, when she was not found in her apartment as she went to her parent's house, the Holy Prophet spent the night with Marya, the coptic girl, presented to him by the ruler of Egypt, who became the mother of his son, Ibrahim. To calm the quarrelsome bad temper of Hafsa he vowed that he would have no more to do with Marya.

The wives of the Holy Prophet were expected to show a higher standard in behaviour, as they were in the company of the superior most teacher of manners, social behaviour and etiquette.

The Holy Prophet's mind was sorely distressed by the obnoxious behaviour of A-isha and Hafsa and he renounced the society of his wives for one month. Verse one was revealed to say that as Allah has allowed him honey and Marya, he did not have to forsake any of them.

If any vow prevents from doing good or acting rightly one should expiate the vow, but not refrain from doing good deeds. For the expiation of oaths and vows see Ma-idah: 89 and for the vain oaths and vows Baqarah: 225.

Verses 3 to 5 refer to A-isha and Hafsa who were envious and jealous to the point of sickness against the Holy Prophet's refined and highminded wives. Once Hafsa came to know about a very personal matter concerning the Holy Prophet which he thought should not be made public, therefore he asked her not to publish it. But she at once rushed to her friend A-isha and whispered to her a version which was in great part untrue. Hafsa who betrayed confidence and A-isha who encouraged the betrayal were commanded to turn in repentance to Allah. If they were to resist repentance and amends, they would be abetting each other's crime but could not harm the most perfect messenger of Allah whom all the spiritual forces always surrounded to protect from every type of slander and falsehood. Please refer to Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6 p. 294 and Ibn Sad's Tabaqat, vol.8, p. 115.

Salihul muminin, "the (most) righteous among the believers" refers to Imam Ali according to Tafsir Durr al Manthur by Jalal al Din al Suyuti, Tafsir al Husayni, Kamaluddin Husayn Kashifi and Hayat ul Awliya.

To understand this point you should read the verses that continues the surah!

malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/25/2004 19:11:11

Edited by - malcolmx on 03/25/2004 19:13:35

[malcolmx]

80:1
One day when the Holy Prophet was in conversation with some of his companions, a blind man, Abdullab ibn Ummi Maktum, who was also poor, came to meet him and learn the Quran. The Holy Prophet received him with kindness and asked him to sit beside him. The Quraysh leaders did not like the interruption, particularly the respect and honour given to him by the Holy Prophet. One of the companions frowned and turned his back on him, which displeased Allah, and this surah was revealed.

Some commentators say that the pronoun "he" in abasa refers to the Holy Prophet who disliked the interruption at a time when he was engrossed in earnest discourse with some of the pagan Quraysh leaders.

For the perfection bestowed on the Holy Prophet refer to Ahzab: 21 and Qalam: 4.

According to the Ahl ul Bayt all the pronouns refer to a companion who was present there and frowned in anger as soon as Abdullah ibn Ummi Maktum sat beside the Holy Prophet. If, as said by such commentators, the Holy Prophet was deeply and earnestly engrossed in explaining the right path to pagan leaders whose conversion he had long cherished and did not pay attention to a man who had already embraced Islam, then this act should not have been censured by Allah.

The question in verse 3 clearly indicates that the doubt "whether Abdullah would grow in knowledge if the Holy Prophet talked to him" could only creep into the mind of a person whose faith was not fully strengthened. It could never come to the mind of a messenger of Allah who had been sent to preach the religion of Allah to one and all, irrespective of the listener's worldly position.

Verse 4 asserts that it is more likely that a poor man on account of his will to learn may grow in his spiritual development more than a wealthy leader who was proud of his possessions, referred to in verse 5, and it was he who frowned in anger (in verse 1). The wealthy companion who looked down upon Abdullah is commanded to let the poor companion be attended to because the message of Allah is accepted by the poor and lowly at once, and the mighty ones of the earth only come in when the weak and the simple people become an irresistible force. Even if a poor man does not grow in knowledge there is no blame on any one. Attention should be paid to those who come to learn with a sincere longing for knowledge. The wealthy companion, in spite of receiving guidance from the Holy Prophet, was unmindful of the preferences of Allah.

The Quran has been revealed to guide the whole mankind from which no one is to be excluded, rich or poor, great or lowly, learned or ignorant. Those who show sincere earnestness must be given preference.

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

you said: Remember it was you who first used that word and agreed that all creatures(including prophets,as) have them and only Allah(swt) alone is free of all imperfections!!!Are you now changing your mind and saying that there are others besides Allah(swt) who are also free of all imperfections???It sounds like a kind of SHIRK to me!!
--------
please tell me where i said that, i went through all my postages, and didnt find it, maybe i misssed. but i have been stating that there is no sin and no shortcoming! you will find that in almost all my postages.
--------------------------
do you find who is masoom(not the word) in this verse?

21:27] They do not precede Him in speech and (only) according to His commandment do they act.
is it possible to get more masoom?

malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/25/2004 19:45:27

Edited by - malcolmx on 03/25/2004 19:49:20

[katta]

welldone malcomx, indeed a wonderfull job.
nadeem, now watt do u say abt this.
abt my post, and the weak sources, huh, i have taken all this from ur books. perhaps, you dont have any answers.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I realised that I had made a mistake regarding verse 66:1,I got it mixed up with another verse 33:37 regarding Zeinab bint Jhash(ra).
I apologise for that,as I am not infallible,remember you also made a mistake when you wrongly asserted that this ayah does not refer to the Prophet(saaws).Then you admitted it!


Your explanation of verse 66:1 is correct,but I and many Qur'anic commentators do not agree with your explanation of sura Abasa which I have heard many times from shias!!

Sura 80:verses 5-10,
5:"As for him(the chieftain) who considers himself free from need(rich),
6:"To him you(oh prophet) do you address yourself?
7:"And it is not necessary for you(oh Prophet)if he does not purify himself.
8:"And as to him(blind man) who comes to you(oh Prophet) striving hard,
9:"And who fears(Allah),
10:"To him YOU(oh Prophet) DID NOT PAY ATTENTION!

Here CLEARLY Allah(swt) is telling the Prophet(saaws) that he did not pay attention to the blind man!!!So how can you say that the Prophet(saaws) asked him(blind man) to sit with him,when Allah(swt) says that the Prophet(saaws) did NOT pay attention to him???Are you really so inclined to disagree with Allah(swt)????


The first verse also refers to the Prophet(saaws) otherwise how can this sura make any sense if you assert that it was someone else who frowned and turned away,then Allah(swt) says that the Prophet(saaws) turned away and did not pay attention to the blind man????

If you assert that Allah(swt) says "he" in the first verse to refer to the chieftain then why doesn't Allah(swt) also use "he" instead of "you" in verses 6-10 of Abasa?????

I am still awaiting answers to the sura 21:87,33:33,and I still await your definition of "masoom"!!!!

sura 66,verse 1,
How can Allah(swt) say that the Prophet(saaws) took as forbidden what was clearly lawful if he was completely masoom??Why would the Prophet(saaws) do such a thing????It is a mistake to take the opposite view of something and to regard it as forbidden when it is lawful,is it not???

You haven't proven anyone to be "masoom" and you never will cos the Qur'an clearly disproves your concept!

I await your further vain attempts to "prove" your concept of infallibility.I can have more of a laugh at your attempts!!

SALAAM.




"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malclm x,

You quoted on page three in your first reply to me:

"The word zhanb should be interpreted as the shortcomings necessitated by the nature of creation in all created beings,BECAUSE ALLAH THE CREATOR ALONE IS ABOVE AND FREE OF ALL INHERENT AND INTRINSIC SHORTCOMINGS...."

This is where you agreed that Allah(swt) alone is free of all imperfections!!!!!

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

80:10

There is nothing, of course, in the verse, itself, to show clearly that the one who is addressed is Mohammad ( p.b.u.h.). The only sign may be found in verses 8 to 10 where they say: "But as to him who comes to you striving hard," "And he fears (Allah in his heart)." "Of him wast thou unmindful."

This is the matter that can be true about the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) more than anyone else. But, there are some signs in the verses showing that 'the one' is not the Prophet (p.b.u.h.). Some of them are as follows:

'To be frowning' was not one of the Prophet's character traits, especially for the Prophet of Islam. He spoke gently and with a kind face even to his own enemies and was even more kind to the truth-seeking believers.

Moreover, paying attention to the wealthy people and neglecting, the poor is not agreeable, at all, with what is said about him in Sura Qalam, No. 68, verse 4 which says: "And thou (standst) on an exalted standard of character", (with the particular note that Sura Qalam had been revealed before the revelation of Sura Abasa).

so ill ask u back, is Quran contradicting here!

66:1 this verse is a supplement to 66:1 and came after 66:1, check the hadith also!
"You may defer any one of them you wish and take to your self any you wish and there is no sin for you to take back any of them you have (temporarily) set aside (33:51)"

u can surly laugh reading this: 21:27] They do not precede Him in speech and (only) according to His commandment do they act.

ACT AND SPEECH.

[malcolmx]

asalam

please, u are making it this easy for me!!! on page 3 this is what i wrote, please read all lines, and not only the line u like!

"The word zanb should be interpreted as the shortcomings necessitated by the nature of creation in all created beings, because Allah, the creator, is alone above and free of all inherent or intrinsic shortcomings. This is the fact towards which the Quran points out when it is said therein that Allah has freed His prophets from shortcomings and that the holy Ahl ul Bayt have been thoroughly purified, which is the result of ghafar (protection) He grants to His chosen servants.

Ghafir in this verse refers to the redress made available by His grace, otherwise victory in any sense cannot be the cause of forgiveness of any misdeed done under the influence of evil.

Zanb here refers to the state of mind of the Holy Prophet in view of the opposition of the disbelievers and the hypocrites to retard the progress of Islam, which came to an end by the decisive victory mentioned in verse one, political as well as spiritual. It is these kind of shortcomings which can be removed by the victory, or it can prevent its recurrence in future-the completion of Allah's favour on the Holy Prophet."

malcolmx

[IronEagle]

Whats the point of this dialogue? If you are saying that prophets don't make mistakes than look at the story of Moses and Jonah.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I am sorry I was only laughing at your interpretations of certain verses and your attempt at defending your concept of complete infallibility,especially your failure to comment on 21:87 and33:33!I was NOT laughing at any Qur'anic verse!!

Sura 21:27,
This is in complete agreement to what I believe when I said that the Prophets(as) are GENERALLY AS A RULE FREE FROM SINS.

This verse refers to the GENERAL RULE that the prophets(as) do not speak or act without Allah,s(swt) command especially regarding religious matters and also other matters as well.
But all RULES have their EXCEPTIONS as well which is what the Qur,an is making clear in those verses regarding mistakes of prophets(as)!

Otherwise how can you reconcile verses 27 and 87 of sura 21???
It is NOT a contradiction!!!

21:27 does NOT imply that anyone is 100% "masoom",and I still await your reply regarding 21:87 where Yunus (as) is CLEARLY admitting his WRONGDOING?I would like to see how you are going to explain this one away!!!
What happened to your reply regarding our (sunni) understanding of 33:33????
As for Sura Abasa,the overwhelming majority of translators and commentators agree that it refers to the Prophet(saaws).As I have already pointed out;their Arabic is far superior to any of ours!!! Allah(swt) knows best and may He Forgive us for any misunderstanding of His Words,Ameen.
Salaam Iron Eagle,

I hope you are following this discussion and please can you try and give references from the Holy Qur,an regarding Musa(as) and Haroon(as),I will also give the references but I want to conclude discussing 21:87 and 33:33 with malcolm x first,many thanks for your input.Wsalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam nadeem

it seems like that you are not reading my postages, ill tell you for the third time, that ill wait till we get further with these verses that we are discussing now!(Prophet Yunus(as) and 33:33).

now pay attantion to the bold writing:
this is your words from page 5:
"Here the Prophet(saaws) was busy explaining islam to some rich merchants when suddenly Abdullah ibn Makhtum approached him interrupting,so the Prophet(saaws) became annoyed at the interruption and turned away frowning,due to human weakness."

and these are your words from this page:
"This verse refers to the GENERAL RULE that the prophets(as) do not speak or act without Allah,s(swt) command especially regarding religious matters and also other matters as well."

how is the Prophet Frawning (AN ACT), while teaching islam? where is allah, now?
logic brother....

malcolmx

[mastermind]

Dear malcolmx


what is your question , i want you to post your question clearly





Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

Dear malcolm

You claim that your 12 Imams were infallible. i want you to prove in the light of the Qur'an and Prophetic Traditions that your 12 Imams were infallible?
Also can you tell me that were the Prophets of Allah infallible or not?


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[mastermind]

Dear malcolm

You claim that your 12 Imams were infallible. i want you to prove in the light of the Qur'an and Prophetic Traditions that your 12 Imams were infallible?
Also can you tell me that were the Prophets of Allah infallible or not?

I'll wait for your reply




Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[katta]

wahaoo, mashter mind ish back.
the question is clear, perhaps you dont want to understand it.
my sincere suggestion, go thru it atleast 5 times or more with an unbiased open mind, then there will be 0.0001% chances that you will get it. be optimistic.
secondly, do you have any answers to JUST CURIOUS, read it. and answer.
welcome back my dear brother

[malcolmx]

asalam

all the prophets(as) and imams ARE infallible, please read my postages not to misunderstand my interpertation of innfallible!
explaining throug Quran is indeed my direction, and ofcourse ill deal with the verses nedeem is waiting for(P. Yunus(as)and 33:33).

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

i can prove infabillity of the Prophets (as) and the imam's(as) and the shia faith from sunni hadiths, no problem. if ure up for it? just start another thread! but in this thread were sticking to the Quran!

"I am leaving you two weighty things, if you follow them you will never go astray, they are the Qur'an and my Ahlul'bayt".(1,2)
1. Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al*Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matba`at Muhammad `Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123

2. (al*'Imam al-Hafiz Abu `Abd Allah al*Hakim al*Naysaburi, al*Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn [Dar al*Ma`rifah li al*Tiba`ah wa al*Nashr: Beirut), vol. iii, pp. 109-110).

"If you make Ali your Khalifa, although I do not think you will, you will find him to be a Guide (Hadi), one who is Guided (Mahdi), and one who will take you to the Right Path (Sirratul Mustaqim)".
Munsub-e-Imamate, by Shah Ismail Shaheed, p 46

No one will be able to cross the Sirat (Path) leading to Heaven on the Day of Judgement unless he gets the stamp of Ali".
Al Sawaiqh al Muhriqa, by Ahmad Ibn Hajar al Makki, page 126 (A book written against the Shi'a)

this hadith, taken from two recognised Sunni works: "Three things have been revealed to me about Ali: That he is the Sayyid al Muslimeen (Chief of Muslims), Imam-ul-Muttaqeen (Imam of the Pious), and wa Qa'id ul Ghurrul Muhajj'ileen (Leader of the bright) face people on Yaum al Qiyamah".
Al Mustadrak, by Imam Hakim, p 137 & 138
Riyad al Nadira, by Mohibbudin al Tabari, Vol 2, p 122



malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 03/29/2004 16:32:15

[Ronnie]

Katta,

Please don't be obnoxiously snide in your posts. You keep making fun of people, please stick to the arguments.

[mastermind]

Asalamoalaikum

Thank you for your reply

Well brother is your doctrine of Imamate so weak that you have to use hadiths and other traditional sources to prove its infallibility?
It is quiet surprizing to note that you are telling to stick to the Qur'an but you have not used any single verse from the Qur'an to support your claim.
my other question is that how does these references which you have quoted from hadith sources proves the infallibility of Prophets(pbuh)?

Allah Hafiz


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[malcolmx]

asalam

patients bro, and exercise ur english, read my postages, just a few ones above on this page:::::

"asalam

all the prophets(as) and imams ARE infallible, please read my postages not to misunderstand my interpertation of innfallible!
explaining throug Quran is indeed my direction, and ofcourse ill deal with the verses nedeem is waiting for(P. Yunus(as)and 33:33).

malcolmx"

so what here is it or what words are there that u dont understand! or do u think that xplaining from Quran takes a few seconds? doesnt people like to read here!?

well iam still waiting for nadeem!

malcolmx

[mastermind]

Mr. Malcomx


Can you prove from this specific verse which you have quoted from Surah no.33, that it only refers to Hazrat Ali(ra),Fatimah(ra),Hassan(ra),Hussain(ra),and the remaining 9 Imams excluding the wives of the Prophet(pbuh)?

Please convince me that this verse proves the infallibility of your Imams including Hazrat Fatimah(ra)?





Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[malcolmx]

asalam

The Holy Book of Allah mentions Ahlul-Bayt and their exceptional virtue in the following verse which is known as "Purification Verse" (Ayah al-Tat'hir):

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

According to the above verse, Allah expresses his intention to keep Ahlul-Bayt pure and flawless/sinless, and what Allah intends it will certainly take place as Quran itself testifies (see 16:40). Indeed, a human can be sinless because he is not forced to commit sin. It is the human's choice to accept the instructions of Allah and get His help to avoid sin, or to neglect Allah's commandments and commit the sin. Allah is advisor, and encourager, and warner. A sinless human is still a human; no doubt about it. Some people assert that in order to be human, one SHOULD have some mistakes. Such claim is unsupported. The truth is that Human CAN make mistakes but he does not have to.

It is the Grace of Allah that attracts His servants towards Him, WITHOUT compelling them any way. This is our choice to pursue this attraction and refrain from doing mistakes, or to turn away and commit the mistakes. However, Allah has GUARANTEED to show the Right Path and to provide a pure life for those who seek it:

Whoever works righteousness man or woman and is faithful, We shall revive a PURE life for him. (Quran 16:97)
And whosoever keeps his duty to Allah, Allah will appoint a way out for him. (Quran 65:2)
It is worth mentioning the sentence of Quran in verse 33:33 which is related to purification of Ahlul-Bayt, has been placed at the middle of verses related to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and this was the main reason why some Sunnis include the wives of the Prophet in Ahlul-Bayt. However, the sentence related to Ahlul-Bayt (given above) distinguishes itself from the sentences before and after it with a clear distinction. The sentences before and after, use only feminine gender which clearly shows they are addressing the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). However, in contrary, the above sentence uses only masculine gender which is a clear indication that that Quran is changing the individuals who is referring to.

People who are familiar with Quran to some extent, know that such a sharp change of addressee is not a weird-thing, and it has been applied to several places in Quran. For instance we read in Quran:

"O Joseph! pass this over and (O wife of Aziz!) ask forgiveness for your sin, for truly you have been at fault."(Quran 12:29)
In the above verse, "O wife of Aziz" has not been mentioned and the address to Joseph (AS) looks to continue. However the transition of the address from masculine gender to feminine gender clearly shows that the second sentence is addressing the Aziz's wife and not Prophet Joseph (AS). Notice that both sentences are WITHIN one verse. Also note the immediate change of addressing from Aziz's wife to Joseph and again back to the wife in verses before verse 29 and also WITHIN that verse.

In Arabic language, when a group of women are being addressed, feminine gender is employed. However, if only one man exists among that group, masculine gender is used instead. Thus the above sentence of Quran clearly shows Allah is referring to a group other than the wives of the Prophet, using masculine gender, and that group includes some male members.

From the verse 33:33 alone, we can not conclude that the wives of the Prophet are not included in Ahlul-Bayt. This latter claim can be proven by the authentic traditions of the Sunnis from Sihah Sittah in which the Prophet mentioned who Ahlul-Bayt are; and also by comparing the specifications of Ahlul-Bayt given in the verse of Quran with the behavior of the some of the wives of the Prophet mentioned in Sihah Sittah to prove the contrary.

What can be understood from the verse ALONE is that Allah is changing His address (which was exclusively the wives of the Prophet at the beginning of the verse) to some people who include some male members, and may or may not include the wives of the Prophet.

It is interesting to see that both Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi as well as many others confirm the Shi'ite point of view explained above. In Sahih Muslim, there is a chapter named "Chapter of Virtues of the Companions". Inside this chapter, there is a section called "Section of the Virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet". There exists ONLY ONE tradition in this section, and this tradition has no reference to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The tradition is known as "The Tradition of Cloak/Mantle" (Hadith al-Kisaa), and is as follows:

Narrated Aisha:
One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."
Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak" is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:

The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."
Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

Also al-Tabari quotes Umm Salama saying:

I said, "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not also one of your Ahlul-Bayt?" I swear by the Almighty that the Holy Prophet did NOT grant me any distinction and said: "You have a good future."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Tabari, v22, p7 under the commentary of verse 33:33

Here is another authentic variation of "The Tradition of Cloak" which is related to Safiyya who was another wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib narrated:

When the Messenger of Allah noticed that a blessing from Allah was to descent, he told Safiyya (one of his wives): "Call for me! Call for me!" Safiyya said: "Call who, O the Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Call for me my Ahlul-Bayt who are Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain." Thus we sent for them and they came to him. Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF) spread his cloak over them, and raised his hand (toward sky) saying: "O Allah! These are my family (Aalee), so bless Muhammad and the family (Aal) of Muhammad." And Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, revealed: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a thorough purification (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)".
Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, p148. The author then wrote: "This tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)."
Talkhis of al-Mustadrak, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p148
Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v3, p33

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

Here I would like to bring another evidence from Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi that why the wives of the Prophet are not included in Ahlul-Bayt, which is also, by the way, another reason for the superiority of Ali (AS) for the position of leadership after the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

The following incident is related to the event of "Mubahala" (which means imprecation, or invoking the curse of Allah upon the liar), which took place in the 9th-10th year of Hijrah. In that year a delegation consisting of 14 Christian priests came from Najran to meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF). When they met the Prophet they asked him what is his opinion about Jesus (AS). The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "You may take rest today and you will receive the reply afterwards." The next day, 3 verses of Quran (3:59-61) about Jesus were revealed. When Christians did not accept the words of Allah, The Prophet recited the last revealed verse:

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and our selves and your selves; then let us be earnest in prayer and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars. (Quran 3:61).

this way, the Prophet (PBUH&HF) challenged the Christians. The next day the Christian priests came out on one side of the field. Also on the other side, the Prophet came out of his house carrying al-Husain in his arm with al-Hasan walking along with him while he was holding his hand. Behind him was Fatimah al-Zahra, and behind her was Ali, peace be upon them all. When the Christians saw the five pure souls, and how determined the Prophet is in his idea that he put the closest people to him at risk, the Christians were terrified and abstained from the proposed malediction (Mubahala) and submitted to a treaty with the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

al-Suyuti who was a great Sunni scholar, wrote:

In the above verse (3:61), according to what Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (the great companion of the Prophet) said, the word "sons" refers to al-Hasan and al-Husain, the word "women" refers to Fatimah, and the word "our selves" refer to the Prophet and Ali. Thus Ali is referred as "the self" of the Prophet (Nafs of the Prophet).
Reference: al-Durr al-Manthoor by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v2, p38

It follows that just as it is unlawful to seek to be superior to the Prophet, similarly it is unlawful to supersede Ali (who is the "self" of the Prophet according to the words of Allah). Any one who presumed to supersede Ali, was, in essence, presumed to supersede the Prophet! This is another Quranic proof for the right of Imam Ali as the immediate successor of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Muslim and al-Tirmidhi both confirm the above incident, and recorded the following tradition in their authentic collections of traditions:

Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas:
...And when the verse 3:61 was revealed, the Prophet called Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain. Then the Prophet said: "O Lord! These are my family members (Ahli)."
Sunni references:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1871, the end of tradition #32.
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p654
al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p150, who said this tradition is authentic based on the criteria set by two Shaikhs, al-Bukhari and Muslim.
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p25

The point, here, is that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did not bring any of his wives to the field of "Mubahala", and according to above tradition, he used the word "Ahl" (family) ONLY for the above-mentioned individuals (i.e., Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain).

Note that in the verse 3:61 of Quran Allah uses plural form "women" by saying "Let us bring our women", but the Prophet only brought his daughter Fatimah (AS). If there were more than one woman in Ahlul-Bayt, the Prophet was required by this verse to bring them, but since there was not any other woman among his Ahlul-Bayt, he brought Fatimah (AS) only. Again, in that incident, the Prophet explicitly mentioned who Ahlul-Bayt are, and named them one by one, and Muslim, al-Tirmidhi, al-Hakim, and many other Sunni scholars recorded that and all confirmed its authenticity. There was no mention of his wives in any of these reports.

Some Sunni scholars have narrated that on the day of consultation for appointing the ruler after the death of Umar, Imam Ali (AS) argued with the members of Shura reminding them his rights to the Caliphate, and one of his reasons was the incident of Mubahala:

On the day of consultation, Ali argued with the committee members saying: "I adjure you in the name of Allah, is there anyone amongst you closer in relationship to the Messenger of Allah than me? Is there any other man whom the Prophet made him 'his (own) soul' (Nafs), and that he made his children 'his (own) children', and his women 'his (own) women'?" They replied: "No, by God!"
Sunni reference:

al-Darqunti, as per:
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p239

----------------------
inshallah soon i will deal with infabillity too!
malcolmx

[Ronnie]

Malcolm X,

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

According to the above verse, Allah expresses his intention to keep Ahlul-Bayt pure and flawless/sinless

How is something that is "pure" can be purified?

[Nadeem]

Salaam all,

Malcolm x has NOT read my last reply properly regarding the reconciliation of 21:27 and 21:87!!!!
21:27 does not say that the Prophets(as) do every single thing in their life by Allah's direct command but it is a GENERALISATION,otherwise it would be in CONTRADICTION to 21:87 and other verses that I have already mentioned regarding mistakes of prophets(as)in the Qur'an!!I hope Malcolm x understands this point!!!
We need to read good commentaries of this verse to get a clearer understanding!
I was talking about GENERAL RULES which have some exceptions.

Off course 21:27 is A GENERAL RULE but clearly the Qur'an tells us that there are exceptions.Sura Abasa and sura Al-Anbiya 21:87 show the exceptions where the Prophets(as) are portrayed as human beings with their flaws.As do other suras which show that no-one is completely infallible.

Anyway Malcolm x has ignored many of my requests for a clear explanation of the shia concept of infallibility,perhaps he enjoys practicing Taqqiyah too much!

We are ready to move on to 21:87 and 33:33 and I was hoping Malcolmx would have given his explanation but,after nerarly a weeks absense I am disappointed cos he hasn't proven a single point from 33:33 and I agree with Ronnie,a point I also made some while back,yet unanswered!!!Many thanks for your time,Wasalaam.

NADEEM.

Otherwise are you saying that 21:27 and 87 are CONTRADICTIONS?????

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam everybody

33:33

There are different degrees of Purification. The ONLY place that Allah said I intend to do a PERFECT purification is in verse 33:33 where He is addressing the Ahlul-Bayt. The word "PERFECT" comes from the emphasis of Allah by "Tat'hiran" which has been used ONLY in verse 33:33. This emphatical word occur in any other place in Quran.

Do you agree that any small sin is a type of impurity? If yes, then a PERFECT purification will not leave any small sin for the Ahlul-Bayt. If Allah intends to KEEP OFF EVERY KIND OF UNCLEANNESS from Ahlul-Bayt, no impurity, no matter how small, will reach them, because Allah is omnipotent. (The phrase "EVERY KIND OF" is due to article of "al-" at the beginning of the world "al-Rijs").

Innama implies the determined decision or will of Allah. Although the decision of a created being may not take effect at all, but the will of Allah takes immediate effect. There cannot be a slightest gap of time or space in the will of Allah taking effect. When He commands: "Be"; it becomes. Refer to Baqarah: 117; Nahl: 40 Maryolm: 35; Ya Sin 83; Mumin: 68 and Qamar 50. It is not only the will of Allah but the declaration of its effect. Since the Ahl ul Bayt have been thoroughly purified, they remain thoroughly purified for ever. The prayer of Ibrahim in Baqarah: 127 to 129 is prayed to continue the excellence in themselves and in their descendants mentioned in Baqarah: 124. When a quality or attribute is described or mentioned in indefinite sense it refers to the perfect possibility. The purity in this verse is absolute purity. Polytheism (shirk) is described in the Quran as impurity and also the greatest iniquity (refer to Luqman : 13). Refer to Baqarah: 124 for the condition that imamah is not bestowed on those who have ever (even once in their lives) worshipped any ghayrallah. All the companions of the Holy Prophet and his wives were polytheists before embracing Islam. Only the Holy Prophet, Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn were at that time free from the dirt of shirk, therefore they alone could be throughly purified.

(i) Innama (verily or only) signifies exclusive distinction. To emphasise this exclusiveness, the second object of the verb yudh-hiba (keep off)-the phrase ankum (from you)-has been put before the first object rijs (uncleanness); and for further emphasis, the phrase Ahl ul Bayt has been mentioned to explain the pronoun ankum (from you). The grammatical structure of the whole clause indicates that this a unique privilege or distinction granted to the Ahl ul Bayt only, excluding all others.

(ii)

The verb yuridu implies that the continuous will or intention of Allah is His creative will or intention, not legislative. To interpret the will as the legislative will as in Ma-idah: 6, distorts the whole fabric of the verse and renders meaningless the exclusive particle and the constructional arrangement. Even then it means that only the Ahl ul Bayt exclusively achieved the standard.

(iii) This verse is a preface to verses 77 to 79 of al Waqi-ah: "Verily this is an honourable (Karim) Quran, in a hidden (preserved) book, which no one can touch save the purified."

(iv) The excellences of Ahl ul Bayt have been openly demonstrated in the event of mubahilah.

(v) The Ahl ul Bayt had only been thoroughly purified by Allah because of their total submission to Allah's will and their state of being always in communion with Allah.

ITS BETTER DO DEAL WITH ONE THING AT A TIME
next would be 21:27
----------------------

i think i got a poor answer from you nadeem..."exceptions", doesnt sound good to me, sorry bro, that wont work! its clearly stated that the act and words are the will of allah regarding islamic matters. this is the one place that revelation NEVER ERRS :::

The Knower of the Unseen; so He does not reveal His secrets to any except to him whom He chooses for an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him, so that He may know that they have indeed delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He takes account of everything. (72:26-28) It is clear that Allah reserves His revelation for His messengers; so He reveals His secrets to them and supports them by guarding them from in front of them and behind them; and encompasses what is with them to protect the revelation from decay and alteration, whether that alteration comes from Satan or others; and it is done to make sure that they have indeed correctly delivered the messages of their Lord. Another verse reports the words of the angels of revelation: and we do not come down but by the command of your Lord; His is whatever is before us and whatever is behind us and whatever is between these; and your Lord is not forgetful. (19:64) These verses prove that the revelation right from. the start of its descent, to its reaching down to the prophets and up to its communication and delivery to the people is duly protected and guarded against change and alteration, from whatever source it might come.

malcolmx

[mastermind]

<center>Answering brother Malcomx</center>


<font color=blue face= verdana>
you said:

There are different degrees of Purification. The ONLY place that Allah said I intend to do a PERFECT purification is in verse 33:33 where He is addressing the Ahlul-Bayt. The word "PERFECT" comes from the emphasis of Allah by "Tat'hiran" which has been used ONLY in verse 33:33. This emphatical word occur in any other place in Quran.
</font>



Answer:

How many degrees of Purficiation are their?
Well according to my understanding their are two degrees or types of purification, one is the purification of soul ,and the another is the purification of physical body.
Purification of soul is more important than the Purification of body
since it improves a persons Spirituality so that he could take over his desires instead of being ruled by it and so that he could easily submit himself in the service of Allah without any difficulty.
If you know about other kind of purification,than please let me know.


<font color=blue face=verdana>
you said:

The Holy Book of Allah mentions Ahlul-Bayt and their exceptional virtue in the following verse which is known as "Purification Verse" (Ayah al-Tat'hir):

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

According to the above verse, Allah expresses his intention to keep Ahlul-Bayt pure and flawless/sinless, and what Allah intends it will certainly take place as Quran itself testifies (see 16:40). Indeed, a human can be sinless because he is not forced to commit sin. It is the human's choice to accept the instructions of Allah and get His help to avoid sin, or to neglect Allah's commandments and commit the sin. Allah is advisor, and encourager, and warner. A sinless human is still a human; no doubt about it. Some people assert that in order to be human, one SHOULD have some mistakes. Such claim is unsupported. The truth is that Human CAN make mistakes but he does not have to.
[b]</font>
[b]
answer:

How does this Verse of Purification proves that Ahl'l- Bait cannot commit any mistake in their lives and are completely flawless and infallible?
When Allah(swt) prohibited Prophet Adam(pbuh)from going near the tree in Heaven, inspite of that ,Prophet Adam(pbuh) not only went near it but also ate a fruit from that tree after which Allah(swt) punished Prophet Adam(pbuh).If a Prophet of Allah could make such mistake and could be punished for it, than what is the position of Ahl'l Bait?
No doubt, that Prophets were the best servants of Allah but it does not gurantee that they will be 100% infallible.
Please donot confuse mistakes with sins, because sins are committed either intentionally or unintentionally(meaning by mistakes),but mistake cannot be equal to sins.From the verse of Purification ,you cannot claim that Ahl'l Bait are free from committing mistakes ,if you are claiming that than i would recommand you to think several times before doing that because in this way you are elevating them to the position of Allah(swt) and it is equalent to"Shirk".

Perfection and infalliblity only goes to Al-mighty Allah(swt) and their is no one save him who is infallible and Perfect.
We can see that even Prophets of Allah can commit sins due to mistakes ,if yourclaiming that Ahl'l Bait are infallible than you are definitely elevating them above all the Prophets of Allah.

You say that a person can be sinless if he is not forced to commit sins,definitely you are pointing towards the force of Satan which compells a person to commit sin but the story of Prophet Adam(pbuh) makes it clear that even Prophets can be decieved by Satan and they can commit sin by mistakes ,are the Ahl'l Bait some special and
exceptional people on whom even Satanic force cannot attack?
Later on you said that a person can make mistakes but he does not have to, do you mean that a person has full control over his mistakes.
How can you prove this in the light of Qur'an.




Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

Edited by - mastermind on 04/04/2004 17:04:37

[Saqeb]

Dear sunni and wahabi brothers,

I have a question for you.Why do you believe in people like Abu Sufyan?You say that he repented and turned muslim.I find that very insulting to my intellect,because after reading many sources its so evident that he feared for his life and ruling status that he gave in to becoming a muslim.His offspring were as callous as him.He fought against Islam until Islam was victorious and so did his offspring i.e. mauwiah and yazeed.His bloodline held a grudge against the Ahl Ul Bayt,the closest to the prophet,yet you believe in people like this and call yourselves muslim? I know these questions will tickle your sensitive points but face FACTS once in a while.


A quick response would be appreciated !!!


From a true believer in the Ahl Ul Bayt

SAQEB....................

[mastermind]

Dear sunni and wahabi brothers,

I have a question for you.Why do you believe in people like Abu Sufyan?You say that he repented and turned muslim.I find that very insulting to my intellect,because after reading many sources its so evident that he feared for his life and ruling status that he gave in to becoming a muslim.His offspring were as callous as him.He fought against Islam until Islam was victorious and so did his offspring i.e. mauwiah and yazeed.His bloodline held a grudge against the Ahl Ul Bayt,the closest to the prophet,yet you believe in people like this and call yourselves muslim? I know these questions will tickle your sensitive points but face FACTS once in a while.


A quick response would be appreciated !!!


From a true believer in the Ahl Ul Bayt

SAQEB....................




<font color=blue face= times new roman>
Answer:

what evidences do you have that Abu Sufiyan and Muawiya fought against Islam?


</font>


Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[malcolmx]

asalam

so whats your point with your first answer? so, if iam trying to purify my soul ill be on the same stage after 40 years? or will i increase my knowledge and keep more sins away?
but generally, an outer and inner.

please dont insult me, read my english and postages. this perfection comes from allah, as stated in the Quran. there is no shirk here. NICE TRY!!!

please go back and read my postage on "ismah", one of my first postages. no point of pasting all that text here again. u will get the proff u need!

here is a quick comment on adam(AS):
God had forbidden Adam and Eve from coming close to a particular tree without forbidding them from eating its fruit or the fruit of similar trees. They obeyed God by not coming near that tree, but Iblis (Eblis) confused them in this regard and suggested that they should eat not from that tree but from other similar trees, swearing to them by God that he was only providing them with an advice. So they believed in his oath and they ate the fruit of a similar tree, and that was before Adam was considered as a Prophet and before his descent to earth, and what he did was not a sin for which the penalty is Hellfire, but it was a minor disobedience which could be forgiven and could be committed by Prophets before wahi (revelation) reaches them. When God chose him and made him a Prophet, he became infallible and was not permitted to commit a sin, minor or major, telling him, "Thus did Adam disobey his Lord and allow himself to be seduced. But his Lord chose him (for His Grace); He turned to him, and gave him guidance.

MALCOLMX (back after easter)

[mastermind]

Malcomx
Asalamolaikum

Infallibility of Ahl'l Bait is a different topic and i would request you to please discuss this topic in thread of "Ahl'l Bait and infallibility" which i have opened recently.

Allah Hafiz



Read Qur'an because Qur'an gives the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong.

[Nadeem]

Salaam,

Malcolm x you seem to go round in circles with me.
We have discussed this again and again and you could not show one ayah where anyone is called "masoom" using that word!!!

33:33 does NOT say that Allah(swt) will make them "masoom"(infallible)!!Also do you shias believe that your "infallibles" are perfect all their lives from birth til death?
I asked this before but got no reply,perhaps taqqiyah got in the way!

I await answer to my question from my last post::

ARE YOU THEN SAYING THAT 21:27 AND 21:87 ARE CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER??Wasalaam.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam all,

Regarding 21:27 It doesn't say that every SINGLE action performed by prophets(as) is dictated by Allah!

It is clearly stating that they(as) ACT by His command meaning they start preaching and warning people whilst declaring themselves as prophets(as).
And Allah(swt) knows best.

Wasalaam

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

nadeem, use your logic:
how do u define allah saying "perfect purification"?
best way to find out is see where this word has beeen uses and what it stands for, and when u gather all that info, u take away all that from ahlul bayt. you will gett infalllible.

now, for for strange Question. show me masoom? what is that? i have shown u so many verses and yet, you cant use your commen sense? dont get misled by the mullas!

what part here dont u understand?
53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.

do u read any limitations?

in frawning part, your arguments are weak. its clerly that while teaching islam prophets(as)cannnot make an error.
and for the Prophet Younus after, easter when i come back, ill show u that he didnt sin!
so, again the Quran is not in contradiction!

i dont mind u accusing me of taqqaiya, it just shows your ignorance, noting more.

but please read this logical text, and i hope it will shed some more light.:next postage

[malcolmx]

asalam

"al-Islam", "at-taslim" and "al-istislam" all are from the same root s-l-m and have the same meaning, that is, to submit, to surrender. These verbs are used when a man or a thing submits to another thing, in such a way that the first never disobeys the second, never goes against it. Allah says: Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah ... (2:112); Surely I have turned my face, being upright, wholly to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth ... (6:79). It is with the face that one turns towards someone. So far as Allah is concerned, the whole being, the whole existence, of the thing turns to Him. When a man surrenders to Allah, he obeys and accepts whatever comes to him from Allah - the creative matters like the measure and the decree, as well as the legislative ones like order and prohibition.

As men differ in degrees of their submission to Divine Decrees or legislations, so does their Islam.

The first stage of Islam is to accept and obey the exoteric commandments, orders and prohibitions, by reciting ash-shahadatayn (the two testimonies, that is, testifying to the Oneness of God and Messengership of Muhammad, (s.a.w.a.)), no matter whether the belief has entered into the heart or not. Allah says: The dwellers of the desert say: "We believe". Say: "You do not believe but say, 'We submit'; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts". . . (49:14)

This Islam is followed by the first stage of al-iman (faith, belief); and that is the sincere belief in the above-mentioned shahadatayn,- such a believer faithfully obeys most of the rules of the shari'ah.

This first stage of al-iman is followed by the second stage of Islam. It is the sincere acceptance of all true beliefs in detail, with its necessary concomitant, that is, good deeds - although occasional slips are not impossible. Allah says praising the pious ones: Those who believed in Our signs and were submissive (43: 69). Also, He says: 0 you who believe! enter into submission one and all (2:208). These verses show that there is an Islam, which comes after al*iman; obviously this Islam is other than the previously mentioned one.

This Islam is followed by the second stage of al-iman; and it is the believing, with full details and reasoning, in the realities of the religion. Allah says: The believers are only those who believe in Allah and His Messenger then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah; they are the truthful ones (49:15). Again, He says: 0 you who believe! shall I lead you to a merchandise which may deliver you from a painful chastisement? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your properties and your lives (61:10-11). This verse directs the believers to believe; obviously the second Nan is other than the first one.

This second stage of al-iman paves the way for the third stage of Islam. When the soul is sufficiently imbued with the above-mentioned Nan, and acquires its characteristics, then man's all animalistic and beastly faculties are subdued to the sublime powers of his intellect and spirituality. He keeps all his desires - pulling him to the material attractions and transient trinkets of this world - under firm control. Thereupon, he reaches a stage where he worships Allah as though he was seeing Him and if he was not seeing Allah, then Allah was seeing him. There is nothing in his hidden life and inner-self that is not submissive to Allah's orders and prohibitions; he is never annoyed with any decree or measure of Allah. Allah says: But no! by your Lord! they do not believe until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their selves as to what you have decided, and submit with total submission (4:65).

This Islam is followed by the third stage of al- [man. Allah says: Successful indeed are the believers, who are humble in their prayers and who keep aloof from what is vain... (23:1-3). It is this stage that the words of Allah refer to: "When his Lord said to him, Submit (yourself), he said: 'I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.' "

Sometimes the second and the third stages are counted as one. The sublime virtues, for example, being pleased with Divine Decree, submitting to the commands of Allah, forbearance and patience for the love of Allah, self-denial, piety, and love and hate for the sake of Allah are concomitants of this stage of al-iman.

The fourth stage of Islam follows the third stage of al-iman. In the above*mentioned stage of al-iman the condition of a man vis-à-vis his Lord is like that of a slave with his master when a slave faithfully follows the dictates of his bondage - when he totally surrenders to the will of his master and accepts his likes and dislikes. Obviously there is no comparison between the ownership and authority a master has over his slave and the ownership and authority the Lord of the worlds has over His creatures. His is the real possession, the real ownership; nothing else has any independent existence - neither in person or characteristics nor in actions.

Sometimes, when a man reaches the third stage of surrender and submission, the Divine Grace takes him under its wing; he is shown the reality, and sees with his heart's eyes that the Kingdom belongs to Allah, nothing else owns anything at all - except when Allah bestows it to someone; there is no Lord other than He.

This realization, this unveiling of reality, is a Divine Gift, a bestowal by Allah, to whom He pleases; a man cannot reach this sublime stage by his own will or effort. Probably it is to this Islam that the prayer of Ibrahim and Isma'il refers: Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a group submissive to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion. . . (2:128). Compare this to the verse: "When his Lord said to him, Submit (yourself), he said: 'I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds' ". Obviously the latter is a legislative, not a creative, order. Ibrahim was Muslim by his own will and choice, responding to the Divine Invitation, obeying the orders of Allah. It was an order he received in his early life. Now the former verse shows him, in the twilight of his life, praying with his son, Isma'il, for Islam and for being shown their ways of devotion. Undoubtedly, he was asking for something, which was not in his hand; or was praying to be kept firm on something, which was not in his power. In short, the Islam, which Ibrahim and Isma'il prayed for, was of this fourth and sublime stage.

This Islam is followed by the fourth stage of al-iman. It happens when the above-mentioned conditions permeates the believer's whole being, and submerges all his conditions and actions. Allah says: Now surely the friends of Allah - they have no fear nor do they grieve; those who believed and were pious (10:62-63). The believers mentioned here must be having the certainty that nothing is independent of Allah, and no "cause" has any causative power except by His permission. It is this certainty, which insulates them from grief when a tragedy strikes them, and protects them from fear if a danger looms ahead. It is only because of this factor that they have been praised in these terms.

This iman comes after the above-mentioned Divine Gift of Islam. Ponder on this point.

malcolmx

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I am a bit shocked and offended at you calling me "ignorant".
I don't know what your problem is but EVERYONE IS IGNORANT to a lesser or greater extent INCLUDING YOU!!!And don't say that you don't practice taqqiyah! It is part of your faith!

Logic? What logic??

According to your "logic" the Qur'an has contradictions!!!!

Sura 37:142,
"Then the big fish did swallow him and he had done ACTS WORTHY OF BLAME."

Sura 21:27,
"They do not precede Him in speech and only ACT by His command."

HOW DO YOU SHIAS RECONCILE THE ABOVE TWO VERSES according to your "logic"????????After clearly rejecting my explanations!!!

I am still patiently awaiting answers to the very first ayaat I quoted regarding Yunus(as).I am wondering why it has taken you SO LONG!Accept it ,you CANNOT do so!!
Maybe you haven't thought of any replies to convince yourself let alone anyone else,ha ha.That'll be the day!!

Sura 53:2-3 are obviously referring to the Qur'anic revelation being sent down to the Prophet(saaws) and NOT to every single thing he says and does in his entire life!!!!

Read on 53:3 onwards; "It is no less than inspiration sent DOWN to him,,,he is taught by one mighty in power."

And NO malcolm x you HAVE NOT shown me anywhere where Allah(swt) calls any of His creatures "masoom"(infallible).None of the ayaat you have shown to support "infallbility" imply that anyone is so!!!!

Also note that NO-ONE in this forum has been even slightly convinced by your feeble answers based on CLEAR mis-interpretation of Qur'anic ayaat(against the majority of learned translators and commentators),except your own shias!

Please give proper answers,I await patiently!!
Wasalaam.


"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I have just noted that sura 21:27 could possibly be regarding the angels actually.READ from 21:26,"They say:The most Compassionate has taken to Himself a son.Holy is He.Those whom they so designate(His angels) are ONLY His honoured servants.

Please read some commentaries regarding these verses!!!

I originally thought they referred to the angels but then assumed they were about Prophet's(as).

And Allah(swt) knows best,Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam Nadeem

on 21:27 are some angles:

N: "I have just noted that sura 21:27 could possibly be regarding the angels actually.READ from 21:26,"They say:The most Compassionate has taken to Himself a son.Holy is He.Those whom they so designate(His angels) are ONLY His honoured servants."

answer: this can be a referance to people who think that isa(AS) was the son of god. here isa(as) is a prophet!

and the verse could be referance for others that think that somebody can be son of god, a point that strikes me at once is that no human have seen or have any contact with angles(unless when they come in the shape of humans.) most likely it is referring to the prophets. but CAN INCLUDE the angles as well.
--------
translation of yousuf ali: And they say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour.

In this verse walad has been used as a gerund, not as a noun-They say: "Arrahman has taken to begetting." The reference is to the belief of the pagans that angels, priests and kings were the sons and daughters of God.

21:25 Not a messenger did We send before thee without this inspiration sent by Us to him: that there is no god but I; therefore worship and serve Me.
21:27 They do not precede Him in speech and (only) according to His commandment do they act.

The prophets of Allah were His servants raised to honour. They neither spoke nor acted, at any time, of their own will. They said and acted (in all things) by Allah's command.

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam

These are they whom Allah has guided; therefore, follow their guidance. (6:90)

and whomsoever Allah lets go astray, there is no guide for him; and whom Allah guides, there is none that can lead him astray; is not Allah Mighty, the Lord of retribution? (39:36-37)

whomsoever Allah guides, he is the rightly guided one. (18:17)

According to these verses all the prophets were decidedly guided by Allah and those who are guided by Allah can never be led astray by any misleading agency. In other words, they are free from all misguidance; and every sin is a misguidance, as is shown by the words of Allah:

malcolmx

[malcolmx]

asalam Nadeem

Prophet Yunus

21:87-88 and 37:139-144

Ill go step by step and also comment on Maududi commentery on this verse!

Questions:

1Why did Yunus (a.s.) leave his people?
2What is the correct meaning of the sentence "and he thought We had no power over him"?
3Was there a command from Allah asking him not to leave or to stay?
4Why did Yunus (a.s.) say, "surely I have been a wrong-doer"?
5Why were lots cast in the laden ship?
6What is the implication of the clause, "for which he blamed himself"?
7What was the reason for the Whale to swallow Yunus (a.s.)?
8What was the reason for Yunus' salvation?
9What is the significance of this story in the Qur'an?
10Based on this episode in the Qur'an, can we say that Yunus (a.s.) commited a sin?

Qur’an: “ And (mention) Dhu'n-Nun, when he went off in anger and thought that We will not limit him (limit his sustenance).

Al-Noon is the whale, and Dhun-Nun is prophet Yunus (a.s.) son of Mata the companion of the whale, who was sent to the people of Nainawa and called them (to Allah), but they did not believe. So he asked Allah to punish them. When the torment was near, they repented and became believers, so Allah lifted the torment and Yunus left them. Thus, Allah tried him with a whale, which swallowed him. Yunus called upon Allah while in the whale’s belly. Allah lifted it (his trial) from him and sent him back to his people.

The verse And (mention) Dhun-Nun, when he went off in anger and thought that We will not limit him means, and remember Dhun-Nun when he left angry with his people when they did not believe him, and thought that We will not limit (from the verse faqadara alayhi rizqah) his sustenance.

Also, the verse And (mention) Dhu'n-Nun, when he went off in anger and thought that We will not limit him may have come as a simile to mean that his (Yunus’) leaving and abandoning his people was like (the similitude of) the one who is angry at his master thinking that his master has no power over him and that he will lose him (the master) by going further away from him, so that he (the master) will have no power over him. However, to say that prophet Yunus (a.s.) got truly angry with his Lord, and his thinking that Allah has no power over him is something that is far away from the honorable prophets when they are infallible.

Qur’an: but he cried out in the darkness…

The darkness, like it was said, is the darkness of the sea and the darkness of the whale’s stomach and the darkness of the night.

Qur’an: There is no Allah save Thee. Be Thou Glorified!

It is a renouncement by Yunus for what he has represented by leaving and abandoning his people without being ordered. His leaving represented – even though he did not do it intentionally and on purpose - that there is another refuge that he can go to other than his Lord, so he renounced that by saying "there is no God save Thee. Be Though Glorified." And it (his leaving) represented the possibility of objecting to His (Allah’s) actions, and getting angry at those actions, and that its possible that Allah will let that go and that it (objecting to his actions, getting angry, and thinking that Allah will let it go) will be out of the circle of His power, so he renounced that by saying " be Though Glorified!"

Qur’an: Lo! I have been a wrong-doer

It is a confession of wrong doing since what he came up with has represented a wrong act even though it was not a wrong act in itself. Nor did he mean or intend by it a sin or wrong act, but rather it was a disciplining from Allah of His prophet in order for him to come near (to Allah) in a manner innocent of representing a wrong act let alone actually doing wrong.

Qur’an: Then we heard his prayer and saved him from the distress. Thus we deliver the believers.

It refers to Yunus (a.s.). Even though he did not explicitly plea or pray, he began with Tawheed and Tanzeeh (Allah is free from blemishes) and confession of doing wrong, and with that, he revealed himself and presented his stance with his Lord and in it a request of salvation and well being, so Allah answered him and saved him from the distress that he was in.

The sentence Thus we deliver the believers is a promise to save any believer who suffers from distress and calls upon his Lord the way Yunus called (his Lord). His (Yunus’) story will also come in Chapter of Saffat Inshallah!

Qur’an: And Yunus was most surely of the messengers. When he left (withdrew from his people) to a laden ship:

(The verses) Refer to a ship full of people, and "ibaq" is the fleeing of a slave from his master.

Fleeing to the ship (abaqa ela al-fulk) means leaving his people and withdrawing from them. Even though leaving his people was not a disobedience to Allah’s orders, nor did Allah forbid him to leave; yet, his leaving, at that time, represented a slave leaving his master, so Allah took him as that. This has been previously explained in the verse "And (mention) Dhun-Nun, when he went off in anger and thought that We will not limit him (limit his sustenance)" (21:87)

Qur’an: And then drew lots and was of those rejected:

"al-mosahama" means drawing lots and "al-edhath" means losing, i.e. he drew lots* with those on the ship and lost. A whale has objected (burdened) their ship, so they had to throw one of them into the sea for the whale to swallow, and leave the ship (alone). So they drew, and Jonah (a.s.) was picked.*

(* Some traditions mention that they cast lots three times and Jonah was the loser all three times. Perhaps the clause "a laden ship" was mentioned to hint that the probability of drawing the same person’s name three times is very small considering the number of people present in the ship. So whatever was objecting the ship was meant for Yunus a.s.) (tr.)

Qur’an: So the fish swallowed him while he was blameworthy:

"al-iltiqam" means swallowing, and "mulim" means blameworthy.

Qur’an: And had he not been one of those who glorify (Allah), He would have tarried in its belly till the day when they are raised:

Allah has considered Jonah as one who glorifies Him, and there are those who continue to glorify (Allah) until it becomes an adjective (description) of them. This shows that he (Yunus) glorified Allah for a long period of time.

The exegetes have expressed different opinions in explaining the meaning of the verse:

First Interpretation: He was one who glorified (Allah) before the whale swallowed him.

Second Interpretation: He was one who glorified (Allah) inside the whale.

Third Interpretation: He was one who glorified (Allah) before the whale swallowed him, and inside the whale.

The verse that (also) mentioned about him glorifying (Allah) was in chapter of the Prophets: "but he cried out in the darkness, saying: There is no Allah save Thee. Be Thou Glorified! Lo! I have been a wrongdoer" (21:87). Therefore, he had to glorify (Allah) inside the whale in particular, or inside the whale and before entering it. The probability that the verse means he glorified before the whale swallowed him is small and should not be considered.

His glorifying along with his confession of being a wrongdoer as in the verse "Be Thou Glorified! Lo! I have been a wrongdoer," – as will later be explained - is glorifying Allah on what he felt** when he left his people. And the verse "And had he not been one of those who glorify (Allah)" etc, indicates that this (glorifying Allah) was the reason for his salvation. And this necessitated that he was put in that trial to praise Allah, and be saved from the grief.

(** he thought that Allah will not limit his sustenance as in the verse "And (mention) Dhu'n-Nun, when he went off in anger and thought that We will not limit him (limit his sustenance)" (21:87) (author)

Therefore, it is apparent that (the verse means) he glorified (Allah) in the whale. So the best of the three interpretations is the second one.

Evidently, the meaning of his glorifying (tasbihah) is calling in the darkness: {{There is no Allah save Thee. Be Thou Glorified! Lo! I have been a wrongdoer.}} He started with "tahlil" (there is no Allah save Thee) to indicate the reason of his glorification, as if he were to say: " there is no god of truth that we direct to except you. You are free from what my actions have represented: that I have left and withdrew from your worship, and headed towards others. I have oppressed myself with my action, so here I am coming to you, renouncing what my action has represented by leaving you to others."

That is the meaning of his (Jonah’s) glorification, and if it were not for that, he would have never survived. The sole reason for his salvation was the glorification and the renouncing of any bad trait of Allah.

With that, it is apparent that the intended meaning of He would have tarried in its belly till the day when they are raised is an assurance that he would have stayed in the whale’s belly until he is restricted. Then, he would come out of it, like if it was a grave that buries people, and he would have stayed there until he is restricted and leaves it; Allah says: Thereof We created you, and thereunto We return you, and thence We bring you forth a second time. (20:55)

There is no evidence in the verse whether he (Jonah) would have been alive or dead in the whale’s belly until resurrection day, with the whale’s belly as his grave. There is also no indication if both of their bodies would have stayed normal or in a different manner. Therefore, there is no base for their (some people’s) differences if he (Jonah) would remain alive in that respect or dead, and the belly is his grave. Nor did it mention if the intended meaning of the resurrection day was the first blowing of the horn that will kill all creatures, or the second blowing, or the postponement to Judgment day to mean a long period of stay.

Qur’an: But We cast him forth on the naked shore in a state of sickness, "nabth" is to cast or discard, and "al-‘ara" is a place that has no shelter of a roof, or tree to provide shade.

The meaning as it appears in the context is he (Jonah) glorified Allah, so we let him out of the whale’s belly and cast him out of the water to a place that has no place where he could shelter, and he was ill.

----------------------------------

There are many verses which prove the 'ismah of the prophets in all its aspects:-

These are they whom Allah has guided; therefore, follow their guidance. (6:90)

and whomsoever Allah lets go astray, there is no guide for him; and whom Allah guides, there is none that can lead him astray; is not Allah Mighty, the Lord of retribution? (39:36-37)

whomsoever Allah guides, he is the rightly guided one. (18:17)

According to these verses all the prophets were decidedly guided by Allah and those who are guided by Allah can never be led astray by any misleading agency. In other words, they are free from all misguidance; and every sin is a misguidance, as is shown by the words of Allah:

Did I not enjoin on you, 0 children of Adam! that you should not worship the, Satan? Surely he is your open enemy, and that you should worship Me; this is the right way. And certainly he led astray a great multitude from among you. What! could not then understand? (36:60-62)

In this verse, Allah counts every sin as going astray, a misguidance as a result of the agency of Satan; at the same time regarding it as the worship of Satan. Looking at all the above verses we find that Allah guided all the prophets by His guidance. Anyone guided by Allah's guidance can never be misled, can never go astray. Every sin is a misguidance; every sin is straying from the right path.

And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed the favors of the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the righteous ones; and excellent are these as companions! (4:69)

Keep us on the right path, the path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray. (1:5-7)

In these verses, the prophets are described as of those upon whom Allah has bestowed His favors; and those upon whom Allah's favors have been bestowed are other than those who have gone astray. It means that the prophets never went astray. If they had committed a sin, they would have gone astray (as explained above). Also, if they had committed any error or mistake in receiving or communicating the revelation, they would have gone astray.

These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, of the prophets of the posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the signs of the Beneficent (God) were recited to them, they fell down prostrating (in obeisance) and weeping. But there followed after them an evil generation, who neglected prayer and followed sensual desires, so they shall soon meet (the result of their) sin. (19:58-59)

This verse attributes two virtues to the prophets: first, the bestowing of favors (upon whom He bestowed favors); second, guidance (whom We guided and chose). Then it goes on praising them for the highest degree of obedience, devoutness and humility before Allah. Afterwards, it condemns the unworthy following generation for their evil traits. Obviously, we see here two opposite groups: one, the praiseworthy ones deserving to be honored by Allah; the other, the condemned ones. This second group has been described as those who followed sensual desires and who will soon see the result of their sins. It clearly means that the first group, i.e. the prophets, did not follow their desires and will not be overtaken by sin. Such sincere servants of Allah could not commit any sin, even before their appointment as prophets. Had they committed any sin even before their receiving prophethood, they would have surely come under the condemnation, neglected prayer and followed sensual desires, so they shall soon meet (the result of their) sin. But, as we explained, theirs is a group of diametrically opposite to the condemned ones.

This Qur'anic proof is somewhat similar to the rational proof given for the 'ismah of the prophets, which is as follows:-

The sending of the prophets and the showing of miracles in their hands is the confirmation of their words. It means that they cannot tell a lie. Also, it is an endorsement that they have the ability to communicate the message of Allah to their people. But a man who indulges in sins and such actions as would harm a project, cannot be said to be qualified to preach the usefulness of that project or to invite the people to participate in it. Therefore, when Allah showed miracles in the hands of the prophets it not only authenticated their claim of prophethood, but also confirmed that they could not commit error in receiving and delivering the divine revelation, and that they faithfully obeyed all the commands of Allah and desisted from all such things which were disliked by Allah. In other words, they were sinless in all its aspects.

continues on next postage

[malcolmx]

...continue

with 2 different commentaries: so read maududies commentary if u can.

Allamah Tabataba’I has expounded these verses that tell the story of Yunus (a.s.) and his episode with the whale, in a way that no part of his commentary contradicts the Qur’anic understanding from the decisive verses that Prophets and Messengers have to be protected by Allah through divine ‘Ismah from making mistakes and sinning. (Read the prelude to conclusions above.)

However, the literal meanings of some of the allegorical verses describing the story of Yunus (a.s.) could give an impression that a Prophet like Yunus (a.s.) was not sinless or did not possess the divine ‘Ismah we mention above. In order to avoid a possible contradiction with the Qur’an regarding the character and quality of the Prophets appointed by Allah for a divine mission, these verses, as Tabataba’I correctly points out in one case, could have come down as similes and the only way to arrive at the correct meaning is to return such verses to the decisive part of the Qur’an so that their true connotation could be fixed.

In the beginning, Tabataba’I tells the story of Yunus who left his people after they disbelieved and belied him. His explanation of the verse "idh abaqa ela ‘l-fulk" (37:140) conforms to the verse 21:87 - "And (Remember) Dhun-Nun (Yunus) when he left in anger…" which shows that Yunus withdrew from his people and not that he was running away from his mission. However, Yunus felt that his leaving ‘represented’ a slave fleeing from his master and thus the usage of the word "abaqa". Some scholars have said that "abaqa" could also mean a slave leaving his place after completing his duties. Such a meaning is also not rejected by the context of verse 21:87.

It appears from Tabataba’I’s tafseer that Yunus (a.s.) left his people at the time when the punishment had already arrived and at the same time, Allah had lifted the punishment. According to his tafseer, and as evident from the Qur'an, there was no commandment as such from Allah instructing his Prophet not to leave or to stay with his people. Therefore, there was no offence or sin on the part of Yunus (a.s.). This explanation is not rejected because, according to the Qur’an, it seems that Allah can make His plan of work known to a Prophet or Messenger to the extent that it is beneficial for the trial of the people and when the Prophet or Messenger thinks that the plan has reached its end, a new development takes place with an unexpected result. This is evident from the following verse: "Allah effaces what He pleases and establishes (likewise). With Him is the basis of the Book" (13:39). The argument by other exegetes that Yunus (a.s.) committed an offence because he foretold the day of the punishment is baseless because of the following reasons:

1. Prophets or Messengers have to be informed of the plan of work by their Master (Allah). So if Yunus (a.s.) warned the people of the coming of the scourge including the exact day, it was based on his knowledge (given by Allah) of the divine plan.

2. There is evidence in the Qur’an that the people of Yunus brought belief when they saw the punishment coming. The explanation by Tabataba’I that the punishment had already arrived is evident from the following verse: And wherefore was there not a town which should believe so that their belief should have profited them but the people of Yunus? When they believed, We removed from them the chastisement of disgrace in this world's life and We gave them provision till a time (10:98). This verse inevitably proves that if Yunus had informed his people about the coming of the punishment, it was not a forecast or prediction but a reality.

There is an important factor to consider in the story of Yunus (a.s.). In verse 21:87, Allah has revealed a sentence and its literal translation is as follows: "…and he (Yunus) thought that We had no power over him". This sentence has led some exegetes to explain that Yunus committed an offence by running away from his people and place of mission without Allah’s permission thinking that his Master would have no power over him. Far be it for a prophet appointed by Allah to think that way because he would be termed as a ‘disbeliever’. A good example is Firawn who claimed to be the Lord of the people because he did not believe in the Absolute power. Tabataba’I has been swift in pointing out that this part of the verse could have come down as a simile for us. In other words, the sentence was revealed that way to create a picture in our minds of a slave leaving his master thinking that he is out of the circle of his master’s power. The similitude in turn, helps us to understand the situation Yunus (a.s.) was in, although innocent. Tabataba’I also gives us the true meaning of the sentence by quoting the verse: "But when He tries him (differently), then straitens to him his means of subsistence, he says: My Lord has disgraced me" (89:16), where similar words were used (faqadara alayhi rizqah).

The most interesting part of Tabataba’I’s tafseer is when he explains that the lots were cast because a whale was objecting the laden ship. The explanation by other exegetes that lots were cast because the ship was overloaded and one person had to be thrown overboard is totally illogical besides the fact that the clause "laden ship" has several meanings. Tabataba’I’s explanation that a whale was objecting the ship seems more plausible and conforming to the sentence: "so the Fish swallowed him…" In other words, the whale was already commanded by Allah to swallow Yunus (a.s.) and was thus meant for Yunus (a.s.). Probably the description "laden ship" is pointing to another miracle: Yunus’ name was picked in the casting of lots despite all the odds that he would not be picked in a ship filled with capacity! The explanation by some exegetes and scholars that when the ship had reached the middle of the sea, it was gripped in a violent storm is also rejected by the context of the verses 37:140-142. This part of Tabataba’I’s tafseer probably explains that Yunus (a.s.) has blamed himself because of the problem the ship was experiencing by the whale’s presence.

Now we come to the part in which Yunus confesses his so called ‘wrongdoing’ while inside the belly of the whale. Based on his previous explanation that Yunus (a.s.) represented in his action, a slave leaving his master, Tabataba’I now explains that Yunus’ confession is related to that ‘representation’. This means that Yunus was not confessing an actual wrongdoing but he was in a state of distress (in darkness) because he felt that he represented an action, which could be deemed as undesirable. Allah tried him for that and Yunus glorified Allah while inside the belly of the whale, at the same time renouncing that representation and thus Allah delivered him. Tabatabai’I’s commentary that this was a disciplining from Allah of His prophet in order for him to come near (to Allah by glorifying Him) in a manner innocent of representing a wrong act let alone actually doing wrong is truly remarkable and explains the purpose of the similitude in verse 21:87 which we previously mentioned.

As a final conclusion, Tabataba’I’s tafseer clearly proves that there was no wrong done by Prophet Yunus (a.s.) and that the trial that he was subjected to was to elevate his status, in a miraculous way, as a Prophet and Messenger of Allah. Yunus left his people based on the sufficient knowledge given to him by Allah for that mission. A similar example can be given in the case of Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) when he was commanded by Allah to sacrifice his son Ismael. Allah brought about a new development and ransomed him with a great sacrifice (of later generations). Ibrahim was put through this difficult trial when he was already a great Prophet and Messenger of Allah. He was not aware of the outcome of the trial. Allah tried him in order to elevate his status to an Imam of the people: "And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He" (2:124). The explanation by other exegetes that the swallowing by the whale was a punishment for the Prophet is totally rejected by the Qur’an. It is a shame for someone to say that Allah punished His Messenger when Allah Himself sends peace on His Messengers (37:181). Hence the belief that Prophet Yunus was sinless, protected by Allah, still stands.
--------------------------

Sayyid Maududi, in his tafsir of the passage in surah al-Anbiya', explains that Yunus had done wrong by leaving his place of mission without Allah's consent. He further says that it was an offence for a prophet to leave his place, which was going to be visited by the punishment of Allah. Maududi also mentions that the story has been "cited to show that even a great Prophet like him did not go unnoticed when he committed an error in regard to Allah's message…" There are several arguments to consider with respect to this part of Maududi’s tafseer. First, one can equally argue that there was no command from Allah instructing the Prophet not to leave and therefore Yunus did nothing wrong to leave his people. Second, based on what we mentioned above, in the prelude to conclusions, to say that a prophet appointed by Allah did wrong is like attributing the wrong to Allah (God Forbid!) since He made the appointment! Third, to assert that a prophet should never leave his place without Allah’s permission is like saying that they were not allowed to exercise their free will and the Qur’an negates this one too. Needless to mention, Sayyid Maududi says in Vol. 7, Meaning of the Qur’an, in commenting on the passage about prophet Job, "the mention of Prophet Job has been made to show that even Prophets were put to trials and afflictions". It is rather surprising that Maududi considers Yunus’ encounter with the whale as his punishment for leaving his people and not a trial to elevate his status! The Qur’an has numerous verses, which mention that believers are subjected to trials and afflictions in order to prove and increase their level of submission and belief.

In commenting on the passage in surah Saffat, Maududi explains the meaning of the word abaqa and says that it is used for the flight and escape of a slave from his master's house. He also explains that Yunus (a.s.) boarded a ship which was overloaded and lots were drawn in the vessel to pick out a person to be thrown overboard when it was felt that the lives of the passengers was in danger due to the overloading. We have mentioned before that the word abaqa was used to give us a similitude of a slave leaving his master and it does not imply that Yunus was running away from his responsibility. Further, it is unreasonable for an exegete, who is highly regarded by the ahlul-Sunnah, to say that throwing one person overboard would have reduced the danger the vessel was facing due to overloading. One can see that such explanations are easily rejected by the context of the verses under study. The clause "laden ship" could mean a ship, which is filled with people to its capacity or "burdened" by something. Tabataba’I’s explanation that a whale was objecting the ship seems to flow well with the whole story and supported by the verse "so the Fish swallowed him…" OR "at last the Fish swallowed him…" (translation, as it appears in Maududi’s tafseer).

Maududi’s commentary on the aftermath of the events that took place in the vessel seems to suggest that a whale appeared in the sea (by the command of Allah) after Yunus was thrown overboard and then swallowed him. In other words, Maududi says that the whale swallowed Yunus because he had fled the place of his mission without the permission of Allah. He supports his statement by pointing out the word "Muleem" (a blameworthy person). His explanation therefore implies that Yunus became worthy of blame by himself because of his sin and error. He attributes this explanation to Ibn Jarir. In any case, this explanation is rejected by the Qur’an because the verse "so the Fish swallowed him while he did that for which he was blameworthy" seems to point to the burdening of the ship by the whale and the casting of lots to decide whom to give to the Fish in order to relieve the burdening. In short, Maududi deems the swallowing by the whale as a punishment from Allah for his so called sin and error while Tabataba’I considers it as a miracle and salvation for a Prophet who was in distress and Allah eventually delivered him from this affliction. As a matter of fact, if Allah really intended to punish Yunus (God forbid), He would have left him in the sea all by himself rather than commanding a whale to swallow him!

Maududi also makes a statement while commenting on the verse, "Had he not been of those who glorify (Us)…" that Prophet Yunus was not of the heedless people but was one of those who glorify Allah constantly and perpetually. Tabataba’I makes a similar statement and says that Yunus (a.s.) was one who glorified Allah for a long period. Therefore, it is very hard to accept that Allah punished a servant of His who glorified Him constantly and perpetually. Maududi has actually contradicted himself in this respect.

In addition, Maududi, through the explanations of various Sunni commentators, including Imam Razi, author of tafseer al-Kabeer, says that there were three offenses on account of which Prophet Yunus was made to suffer Allah’s displeasure:

First, Yunus (a.s.) himself foretold or fixed the day of the punishment when "Allah had not made any declaration in this regard."

Reply: This is without any proof from the Qur’an. As a matter of fact, verse 10:98 proves that the punishment had already arrived before Allah lifted it and we have commented on this above.

Second, Yunus’ offense was that he left his people even before the day of punishment came, while a prophet is not allowed to leave his place of mission until given the order by Allah.

Reply: There is no evidence from the Qur’an that Yunus left his people before the punishment arrived. Also, where in the Qur’an does it say, with the exception of a specific command that a Prophet is not allowed to leave his place of mission until Allah orders him to do so? We have mentioned above that to assert that a prophet should never leave his place without Allah’s permission is like saying that they were not allowed to exercise their free will! After all, 'Ismah (protection) comes from Allah; He creates in the prophet a cause from which all his actions emanate - the actions which are done by his own free will and are always in obedience to Him.

Third: Yunus’ offense was that he did not return to his people after the punishment had been averted from them.

Reply: We don’t know the exact meaning of the third offence. Does he mean to say that Yunus never returned to his people? If so, it is negated by the following verse: And We sent him (Yunus) to a hundred thousand, rather they exceeded. (37:147) However, if he means to say that Yunus should have stayed with his people, then it is a repetition of the second offence. According to Tabataba’I’s tafseer and verse 10:98, it appears that Yunus left his people after the punishment had arrived and the lifting of it by Allah and therefore the claim that he did not return to his people after the punishment was averted does not make sense at all.

In short, we have witnessed that Maududi’s tafseer on the story of Prophet Yunus in the Qur’an began and ended on the wrong footing that Prophets appointed by Allah can make mistakes and commit sins. This is evident from the explanations Maududi presents by taking the literal meanings of some of the verses, which probably came down as similes. In addition, his commentary in the end that Prophet Yunus committed three offences is baseless, not even apparent from the verses under study and also without any proof from the Qur’an. To claim that Prophet Yunus was guilty of these offences or even to utter that Prophets and Messengers were capable of sinning is a blatant contradiction of the Qur’anic verses honoring the Prophets such as:

These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, of the prophets of the posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the signs of the Beneficent (God) were recited to them, they fell down prostrating (in obeisance) and weeping. (19:58)

And peace be on the messengers. (37:181)

malcolmx



Edited by - malcolmx on 04/16/2004 08:16:28

[malcolmx]

asalam

any commments?`

malcolmx

[Nadeem]

Salaam to all readers of this thread,

I have managed to read and ponder over malcolm x's lengthy reply with some amazing revelations regarding shiaism in general.

I would like to point out straightaway that despite his tremendous efforts,he really has NOT at all answered anything regarding those Qur'anic verses but persisted as ever in trying to EXPLAIN THEM AWAY
by misinterpreting them and twisting their meanings to suit common shia doctrines.He hasn't even done a good job of that because he CONTRADICTS himself in his explanation.

Please visit this link to read what a major shia scholar has to say about EXPLAINING AWAY verses of the Qur'an which DO NOT AGREE with the erroneous shia doctrines.
http://www.al-islam.org/gallery/kids/Books/tenets/infallibility.htm

You will now understand what I mean about explaining away and misinterpreting the Qur'an in order to suit their beliefs.
Please also click back and forth and read the whole article for some interesting revelations about shiaism which malcolm x was keeping from us due to his love of practising taqqiyah!

I am sorry I do not have the time to elaborate on malcolmx's contradictory essay right now,but will soon do so.Malcolm x
I hope you can be patient enough to wait a few days as I waited over a month for your essay.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

I've decided to start my comments on your "monumental" essay.
I'd just like to make it clear that I did not say that any of the Prophet's(as) committed any deliberate or intentional peculiar sins(ithm).They only committed some mistakes,errors or dhamb(minor sins) as far as I know unintentionally due to natural human weaknesses,which are mentioned in the Qur'an.

21:87, Prophet Yunus(as) admits that he was a zalim,and another popular meaning of this word is oppressor.

You said that 21:27 refers to prophets(as) and that it says that every SINGLE action they perform is dictated by Allah(swt).Also that they do not speak until He has spoken!Are you then saying that they DO NOT DO OR SAY ANYTHING AT ALL BY THEIR OWN FREEWILL??
THAT THEY ARE LIKE PROGRAMMED ROBOTS WHO NEVER MAKE MISTAKES!!LIKE THE ANGELS WITH NO FREEWILL??
This is what your understanding of 21:27 implies!!!!!
SO HOW CAN THEY BE A MODEL FOR HUMANS(with all their imperfections) TO FOLLOW??IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO IMMITATE THEM THEN!!

Are you then saying that Allah(swt) ordered Yunus(as) to commit those blameworthy acts and then admit that he was wrong??
If so,then you are insulting Allah(swt) Himself.

Contradictions:

You say that all prophets(as) ACT ONLY BY THE COMMAND OF ALLAH(SWT)in ALL their actions.
SO HOW DID YUNUS(AS) ACT BY HIMSELF WITHOUT ANY COMMAND FROM ALLAH(SWT) when he departed in wrath?????

SHAYKH TUSI says that all prophets(as) are infallible from an early age and throughout their lives.
How do you explain that in 33:33 Allah(swt) wants to REMOVE UNCLEANLINESS from Ahl ul Bait(includes the Prophet,saaw)and PURIFY THEM THOROUGHLY.

Surely if they were infallible from an early age,they wouldn't NEED TO BE PURIFIED would they???
This is the THIRD time I am asking this with NO reply!!

Also in a previous reply you said that:

zhanb refers to the state of mind of the Prophet(saaw)!!!!
So you agreed that the Prophet's(saaw) state of mind was in error and made mistakes.Theres another contradiction in your thinking!!

I think that these are more than enough for you to handle for now.
Wasalaam.


"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

Edited by - Nadeem on 07/13/2004 17:01:56

[malcolmx]

asalam

here we go agian with the taqqaiya, do u have noting better to write? in islam there are certain rules for performing taqayya, this forum is not one one them, i thougt u knew som islam??

33:33 i have answered u, but maybe u dont like to read, go back few pages...

al-islam.org.... are we reading with some(alot) prejudice here?????

IT SEEMS LIKE UR DOING THE TWISTING PART HERE: THIS IS WHAT I WROTE ON ZHANB, MAYBE U ARE PRACTICEING TAQAYYA???::

""The word zanb should be interpreted as the shortcomings necessitated by the nature of creation in all created beings, because Allah, the creator, is alone above and free of all inherent or intrinsic shortcomings. This is the fact towards which the Quran points out when it is said therein that Allah has freed His prophets from shortcomings and that the holy Ahl ul Bayt have been thoroughly purified, which is the result of ghafar (protection) He grants to His chosen servants.

Ghafir in this verse refers to the redress made available by His grace, otherwise victory in any sense cannot be the cause of forgiveness of any misdeed done under the influence of evil.

Zanb here refers to the state of mind of the Holy Prophet in view of the opposition of the disbelievers and the hypocrites to retard the progress of Islam, which came to an end by the decisive victory mentioned in verse one, political as well as spiritual. It is these kind of shortcomings which can be removed by the victory, or it can prevent its recurrence in future-the completion of Allah's favour on the Holy Prophet."

AGAIN UR NOT READING!!! so stop presenting my sentence like this!

for the part whre u write that i say that prophets are robots etc, not not my stand at all. if u go back and read this time, ull get my view!!! the prophets have free will!

seems like u have some reading to do!

and again: if u translate ghafar as forgiveness and put it into the different verses i wrote, they wont make any sense, the more correct translationg would still be "protection". regardless for what ur dictionary says. one word do have different meanings in different ayat.

malcolmx

[Nadeem]

Salaam malcolm x,

Getting touchy are we???About taqqiyah,it's a shia thing is it?

You have NOT made any sense with your shiafied interpretation of the word zhanb!!!That is your interpretation and NOT the one others use.
Who are you shias to decide how any Arabic word should be interpreted????YOU ARE TWISTING WORDS TO SUIT YOUR ERRONEOUS BELIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The word ghafar can have a variety of meanings,but mostly it means to forgive.And it would still make sense in any ayaat you have posted ,maybe you can give me a list of ayaat where it wouldn't make any sense with that meaning(to forgive).

AS I HAVE POINTED OUT BEFORE,THE RESPECTED TRANSLATORS HAVE INTERPRETED IT TO MEAN FORGIVENESS.WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE THEY ARE WRONG??????Are you an Arabic scholar to disagree with dictionaries??

You have NOT explained how 33:33 could make any sense in light of Shaykh Tusi's explanation of infallibility,that the "infallibles" are so from early childhood throughout their lives!!
Maybe you DON'T agree with your learned Shaykh from history!!
Also you did NOT manage to comment on Shaykh Tusi's remarks about Qur'anic ayaat to be EXPLAINED AWAY when they disagree with shiaism!!
Maybe it skipped your mind and you only comment on what you think you can answer!!

No explanation at all is given of your pathetic essay on Yunus(as)and the great contradiction in your twisted interpretation of that story!!

And again we are going backwards to what we have already discussed before!!!!I have read your meaningless explanations full of contradictory statements again and again.They do NOT make any logical sense and to be honest I am getting fed up with reading your unreasonable babble.

I have realised that you are very BLIND to the REAL truth due to your shia conditioning as many of you are.And hereby state that I am really NOT interested in much further dialogue with people like you.
Please try to answer my points from above though,which I am sure you will anyway.
I was hoping you could open up your narrow mind to the truth of the Holy Qur'an,but you are really not bothered about that at all,just your shiafied corrupt interpretations of the Holy Book.
Still I hope that Allah(swt) will enable you to see the REAL truth but please open your mind in order for that to happen!!
Anyway,many thanks for your time and efforts in discussion with me.

May Allah(swt) help and guide you towards the truth,Ameen.
Wasalaam.



"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.

[malcolmx]

asalam

its nice tactic u use, when u cant answer and cant admit cutting my passages wrongly.
obviously, by saying shia hundred times in your false allegations u will only convince the more ignorant people then your self.

its not me saying; sunni sunni and sunni all the time, its you who cant leave the word shia alone, even if were discussing from the Quran!

so people that are reading this forum, do indeed understand that poor tactic, by repeating "shia this, shia that", and not sticking to the discussion!

malcolmx

[Nadeem]

Salaam all readers of this thread,

I have just read malcolm x's accusation of using poor tactic.HUH!!
I hope you have the sense to see through his guise and realise that he is the one NOT sticking to the discussion.Just what did he contribute by his last reply????

He has accused our mullahs of being corrupt and then he hates my use of the word shia.HE CLEARLY HAS NO ANSWERS TO THOSE POINTS WHICH HAVE CLEARLY REFUTED HIS BELIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!And he just wants to argue over silly things and try to entice people to his side by writing confusing essays which seem to sound good and make him look learned,when he clearly is NOT!!

Anyway many thanks for your time and may Allah(swt) keep you on the truth and away from the ABSURD CULT OF SHIAISM.Ameen.

"And say that the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Holy Qur'an.