Cannot be there a universal religions code

[rehaam]

salams
I have been podering over the whole phenomenon of sticking to a particular religious discipline. I believe that it is not at all important to ascribe to and propagate a particualr religius code. I say this because that i am only a Muslim because of the fact i was born in a Muslim community so is every body. We are brought up in that parrticular community and we develop a paradigm that is the product of collective thinking of that group. Now we judge and analyse things very honestly but do not necessarily share the conclusion reached at by another honest seeker of the truth from anohter religoius community. That is why we see that there has been very little conversion over the history. It is only the messengers and other great figures who succeeded in the past to establish a certian religoius code. Once that code is established the followers are again turned deaf and blind. The largest religious community is that of the christians which is also a fraction of the world population. Do all other people not sincere in their search for truth or they have no concern over the matter?


spy

[JCFan]

There is a universal religious code...
http://www.omdurman.org/religion.html

<hr width=240 align=left>
[JCFan1:1] Read it*. For only then may your heart be for it*,or against it*. Faith based on hearsay is a danger, and shall surely lead from the path.
* early sources: 'the thing'

[rehaam]

thanks for the link. But the authors are not presenting a fair picture of the religions like Islam. They need to study the sources of the religion Islam impartially. But that is another issue. What i want to stress is that why people do not say the followers of all the religions should be considered on the right? Whay christians say that Jesus is the only way to Salvation? Why Jews and Muslims consider their creed to be the best?

spy

[JCFan]

But the authors are not presenting a fair picture of the religions like Islam.
:) Oh, that's Rich!.. There is no other like Islam!

Anyhow, that is beside the point. I admit the authors paint a very harsh, onesided view. Yet Islam, even when you calculate in the peace and love the Muslim is capable of, is a very harsh, onesided religion.

I am coming more to the understanding that we are all correct in our beliefs. And the reason we can't get along is two fold... We allow ourselves to drift from our teachings, and we refuse others the same luxury. We explain away our own evils, and hold the evils of others up to ridicule.

I believe that the one true God is the only power in heaven. I see what plays out on the evening news not as a struggle of good vs evil, but as man vs man. Both sides have their eyes clouded for any good, and their hearts numbed to any evil.

Islam is the harshest religion of God. It sets up a very inviolate line of us vs them. I am not saying that this is a bad thing. But I do believe on the judgement day the religion of Islam will be held up as an example, to show everyone, no set of laws or rules can make anyone holy.

We all wander through life compelling others to think as we do, so they can be saved. Yet we forget that it starts in the heart. No matter what belief someone holds up as being the path to righteousness, if the heart is not set toward doing what is right and godly, all paths end at the field of weeds.

Peace!

<hr width=240 align=left>
[JCFan1:1] Read it*. For only then may your heart be for it*,or against it*. Faith based on hearsay is a danger, and shall surely lead from the path.
* early sources: 'the thing'

[rehaam]

How do you see yourself? I mean what picture do you gather of your attitude towards others take for example islam. You throw to them a chance of success in heaven after portraying them a 'a band of lawless' poeple. I expected from you a more realistic approach. May be what Muslims are doing is not what Islam teaches them!


spy

[JCFan]

Hello Rehaam,
I am a Christian and I hold strongly to that which is teaches, though I see it as a slippery slope, if one holds to strongly to it's message of forgiveness one loses sight of the responsibility it demands. It is too easy for the christian to twist the words to say that Christ did it all, and the law no longer applies. I like the fact that Jesus preached strongly against any violence between men, and that we should all remember we are all sinful in the eyes of God. Christians have been given a message of peace and love for all men, and a message that only those who recieve the message will be saved. Consequently many of them hold themselves up as somehow being the saviours of all mankind, while ignoring the failures within themselves.

I also see Islam as a slippery slope. It has very solid teachings regarding mans responsibility to God and mans responsibility to other men. Yet it also contains an us-vs-them message which I think is truly destructive if taken out of context. The Qur'an contains teachings which dehumanizes those who are not within the religion, such as "God does not love the evildoers". I think if passages such as this are taken out of context it allows one to harden their hearts toward others. Passages such as this are in contradiction to the theme in christianity which teaches us... 'If God didn't love us all, he would have already thrown us into the fire'.

I don't know enough about Judaism to make much of an analysis, yet I think I am safe to say it also is a slippery slope. I am sure the Judaic teachings are also full of passages, which if taken out of context, set one up to feeling good about themselves, while they quietly lose grip of the real message.

I think the perfect religion would have it's roots planted firmly in the forgiveness and humility of Christ, it's body built up on the Islamic law, and mans responsibility to God. With the crowning jewel being the Judaic teaching that God has certainly shown his favor on us.

And again, that perfect religion, with the best taken from all the others would be a slippery slope for those who lose sight of what it really means.

So I guess it all boils down to they are all divine, as long as you don't lose sight of what they really mean. We belong to God! It is for him to lead us. And it is not for us to pretend he has given us any authority over other men.

It is inevitable, while we walk this earth, wars will happen. At that time we need to reconcile our actions to those which God would approve, and not just assume that since we have 'the religion' we are right in God's eyes.

<hr width=240 align=left>
[JCFan1:1] Read it*. For only then may your heart be for it*,or against it*. Faith based on hearsay is a danger, and shall surely lead from the path.
* early sources: 'the thing'

[mpriest]

Salaam

Rehaam,in my opinion there is a universal code,God is one.

JCfan you mention that you do not know much about judaism,but
i think you know that they also believe that the G-D of Israel
is one G-D.

Rehaam also wrote.Do all other people not sincere in their search
for truth or they have no concern over the matter.

Most of the time people will not reach the same conclusion.Those that
do not follow the God is one concept do believe in a higher awareness
of self.

What we all need to do is not to expect everyone to follow the same
concepts.

matthew missionary priest

[Vajradhara]

perhaps...

an exploration of the Baha'i tradition would be of some value for you rehaam.

the Baha'i, from what i've come to understand, are a syncresitic blend of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

you can review this link for more information about Baha'is:

http://www.bahai.org/

~compassionately~

[rehaam]

Thanks to you all.
Thank you Vajradhara for the link.
i will visit the site and know about them.
though i do not believe in the idea of a religious code wihc is distinct from others i want to know whey people do not think that all could be sincerely following the truth (to them)
I believe that the basic qualification is the belief in God, hereafter and doing goood.
All else should not cause that wide differences.


Do not call me ignorant; educate me

[Vajradhara]

Namaste rehaam,

i can only speak for myself in this regard.

you ask:

"i want to know whey[sic] people do not think that all could be sincerely following the truth (to them)"

this is exactly the point of view that Buddhism takes with regards to the other world religions. though i should say that we only regard reglions that have a valid moral and ethical teaching as refuges. a refuge is a technical term in Buddhism that denotes a valid spiritual refuge that one can make reasonable progress in their spiritual journey.

in any event... we are encouraged to learn about the other traditions and to support other spiritual adherents in their practice as much as we can.

you then state:

"I believe that the basic qualification is the belief in God, hereafter and doing goood. "

to which i, of course, would have to disagree :) Buddhism does not have a creator diety concept. now, as for the doing good part.. i'm in complete agreement. this is part and parcel of the valid moral and ethical teachings. belief in a "hereafter" wouldn't seem to have much bearing on it, in my opinion. this is probably a product of my own tradition, though, as we don't really have a "hereafter" in the same sense as the Abramahic religions do.

now.. in point of fact.. we could still probably agree in most respects about our various traditions... however, what i think would be of more value, would be for me to be secure in my faith and for you to be secure in your faith and we can both encourage each other in our praxis.

by changing our own hearts and minds, we effect change in the world. it is small and relatively hard to notice, however, even as small drops fill a bucket, acts of mercy, compassion and tolerance, change our world.





~compassionately~

[rehaam]

<size=6> Buddhism does not have a creator diety concept. now, as for the doing good part.. i'm in complete agreement. <size=6>

But that will always leave me in confusion as to how could this universe and my amazing self just grew out of nothing.

Do not call me ignorant; educate me

[Vajradhara]

Namaste rehaam,

thank you for your post.

i understand :) really, i do.

i, too, used to accept a Creator Deity as the creator of the universe and me. no longer do i have that ideation.

what i have discovered in my searching is that there are, in fact, other ideas of how the universe came into being that are equally as likely to have happened. now.. i have come to this conclusion of "equally likely" due to my non-belief in God, so i wouldn't necessarily say that everyone would agree.

what i can say is this...

when people were unsophisticated, they used to believe that the earth was flat and that lightning was caused by angry deities. people do not think that any longer. in essence, what they were doing was using God to fill in the gaps of their knowledge. this is, in essence, God of the Gaps Theology.

we now know that lightning is caused by positive or negative ion discharges and that the earth is, in fact, a sphere.

so God is removed from those Gaps. for people with a God of the Gaps Theology, they are in a dangerous position of having a natural explanation for their "gap" and thus are forced to keep moving God into other Gaps. this is a mistaken method, in my opinion.



~compassionately~

[xp²]

just going by the title of the thread, i want to show you what is said in the Quran, and you may find it of relevance;


<font color="red">O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). [49:13]</font>

and also...

<font color="red">To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a Law and an Open Way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; [5:48]</font>


there are more verses but they all are of the same notion, so these should suffice.





Edited by - xp on 12/24/2003 22:59:53

[rehaam]

<p align=justify> so God is removed from those Gaps. for people with a God of the Gaps Theology, they are in a dangerous position of having a natural explanation for their "gap" and thus are forced to keep moving God into other Gaps. this is a mistaken method, in my opinion.

<p align=justify> Do not we need an explanatoin of all whole phenomenon? All the religious and scientific theories in this regards share one thing in common. They all are trying to prove the same thing. Some poeple may have discovered dietiies for these 'small gaps' but that also is a part of the whole phenomenon. I hope you also have found an explanation parelel to the existance of God. Haven't you?
<p align=justify> I think that God may not be the product of our search for something to fill in the gap but 'the gap' itself has led me and many others to God.

Do not call me ignorant; educate me

[Vajradhara]

Salaam rehaam,

why would we need an explanation for "everything?" that's nothing more than hubris in even entertaining such a notion, in my opinon.

God the Gaps is as a thelogical method is poor since if you do, in fact, discover the natural cause of the "gap" you effectively falseify the current understanding of deity.

far better, in my opinion, to posit a deity that is seperate from the gaps of knowledge.

as for an explanation for the existence of God... well.. i'm not entirely sure what you are trying to ask me here... so i'll wait for a bit of clarification.



~compassionately~