Are sunnis muslim or kahffir?

[sheik]

salaam,

yes yes yes, as you assumed this is a contraversial thread from the get go, but there is ample proof to show that the sunnis are from islamic belief compared to other sects.

C squared, corrupted caliphas

This is a Hadith taken from the Sahih al Bukhari and numerous others Sahis (authentic)

The hadith is called the 'Black Thusrday' or 'Ink and paper'

On a Thursday while the Prophet was very ill and in his death bed he summonned all his companions present in his room to bring him INK and PAPER so that they can write down something he had to say which will GUIDE CORRECTLY the Muslims of all ages after his death untill the Day of Judgement.

Some companions stood up to get the ink and paper but Umar al Khattab the 2nd khalif stood up and in a loud voice said something to the effect of 'WE DO NOT NEED INK AND PAPER, WE HAVE THE QURAN,AND THATS ALL WE NEED, THIS MAN (prophet)HAS GONE DELIRIOUS (mad), HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT...'

This is to those who sincerly love the Prophet :-

-What do you make out of this statement of Umar to the prophet ?

-How much love do you think Umar showed to the prophet of Islam the guide and leader of mankind?

He reffered to the Holy Prophet as 'THIS MAN' and then he say the Prophet has gone 'DELIRIOUS' or mad, Do you think the prophet was mad, and that he did not know what he was talking about?

Please refer to all the sahis including Bukhari who have reported this hadith and make your own conclusion

Kanz Ul Ummal, Vol 5, pg 237,

as reported by Aisha bint Abu Bakr:

"My father collected the Hadith of the Prophet (s), and they were five-hundred in number. He spent the night being undecided [about them]. I said that he was undecided because of a complaint or something that had reached him. In the morning he said: "Oh my daughter! Bring me all the Hadiths that are with you". I gave them to him and he burnt them..."

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol 1, pg 4, and also in Kanz ul Ummal, Vol 3, pg 126 that:

Abu Bakr once said: "If you require me to implement the Sunnah of your Prophet, I cannot withstand it."


No wonder Sunni traditions are all so messed up.....



here are proofs ahul bayt is the way of the true

The Messenger of Allah said: "Regard the Ahlul-Bayt among you as the head to the body, or the eyes to the face, for the face is only guided by the eyes."

References:

Is'af al-Raghibeen, by al-Saban
al-Sharaf al-Mua'abbad, by Shaikh Yusuf al-Nabahani, p31, by more than one authority

The Messenger of Allah said: "My Ahlul-Bayt are the protected place of refuge about the dispute in religion." (Mustadrak Hakim)

The Messenger of Allah said: "Acknowledgment of Aale-Muhammad (the family of Muhammad) means salvation from the fire, and love for them is a passport for crossing the bridge of the Siraat, and obedience to them is a protection from divine wrath."

References:

Kitab al-Shafa, by Qadhi 'Ayadh, published in 1328 AH, v2, p40
Yanabi al-Mawaddah, al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, section 65, p370

Abdullah Ibn Hantab related: The Messenger of Allah addressed us at Juhfa saying: "Do I not have authority over you more than yourselves?" They all said, "Yes of course." Then he said: "I shall hold you answerable for two things, namely, the Book of Allah and my descendants."

Reference:

Ihyaa al-Mayyit, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti
Arba'in al-'Arbain, by Allamah al-Nabahani

Members of the House of the Prophet, your love is a Divine duty on mankind. God revealed it in His Quran. It is enough among your great privileges that whoever does not bless you, his prayer is void.

If the love of the members of the House of the Prophet is Rafdh (rejection), let mankind and the Jinns testify that I am a Rafidhi (rejector).

see: Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, v27, p166, under the commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran.

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, p88, in connection with the verse 33:33 of Quran.


i;ll give you time to absorb the sunnis "rightly guided" caliphas faults and errors.

salaam

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Subhannalah! What ridiculous sources! If you are going to quote from Bukhari, provide the specific reference number. Are you aware of the word MAwdoa'

Why do I say these sources are ridiculous? Look what these shia sources say:

1. "Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

2. All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)

3. There are seventeen thousand Ayah in real Qur'an. (Al Shafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 616)

4. Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 420)

5. All the people rejected Islam after the death of the Prophet except three. Miqdad, Abu Zar and Salman Farsi. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 134)

6. "Difference between ALLAH and Ali". (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 66)

7. We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145)

8. No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

9. Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) could not recite Kalma at the time of his death. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 211)

10. When Our Qaim (12th Imam) gets up, Humira (Ayesha) will be raised from the dead so as to be whipped her due punishment, and so as to avenge the daughter of Muhammad (s.a.w.s), Fatima. (Al Shafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 108)

11. Ali is God. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 66)

12. The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)

13. "Changes in Qur'an for Drinker Khulafa-e-Rashideen". (Translation Of Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 479)

14. Shaitan was the first to sworn the oath of allegiance from Abu Bakr in the mosque. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 30)

15. "An accusation of poisoning to Prophet by Ayesha and Hafsa". (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Page No. 118)

16. Imams are God. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 85)

17. Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)

18. Pakistan is mentioned in the Original Holy Qur'an, present Qur'an is meaningless. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari, Page No. 554)

19. It is infidelity (Kufr) to doubt about the infidelity (Kufr) of Hazrat Umar. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Page No. 63)

21. Abdullah Ibn-e-Saba maintained the indispensability of Imamat and claimed that Ali was the true lord. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 234)

22. According to Shia's nothing can remain hidden from the Imams, they have a complete knowledge of past, present and future. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 260)

23. Qur'an was ascended in four parts whereas present Qur'an is consist of three parts. (Shia Aur Tehreef-e-Quran, page No. 62)

24. Those who deny the first of Hazrat Ali Caliphate are infidels. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 3, Page No. 264)

25. Ayesha was an infidel women. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 726)

26. We neither accept that God nor Prophet whose successor is Abu Bakr. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 278)

27. Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)

28. The present Qur'an is abridged where as the Original Qur'an is kept by Imam Mehdi. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari, Page No. 553)

29. Abu Bakr and Umar were more tyrant than Shaitan. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 509)

30. Imam Mehdi will punish Ayesha with strips. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 901)

31. "An acceptance of separate Kalma". (Asool-e-Shariat Fee Aqaid-ul-Shia't, Page No. 423)

32. To hide secret and to weep on the operations of Imam is Jihad. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 226)

33. Shaikheen (r.a) refused to accept the Qur'an which was compiled by Hazrat Ali (r.a). (Fasal-ul-Khitab, Page No. 64)

34. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar among seven doors of the hell. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 500)

35. Ayesha and Hafsa were hypocrite and infidel women. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 900)

36. "An acceptance of alteration in the Kalma Tayyibah". (Shia Mazhab Haq Hai, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 57)

37. Fourteen Imams of Shia's (infallible), the masters of this Universe are desecration of all Prophets and Angels. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. 2, Page No. 29)

38. Qur'an was eaten by God. (Min Kitab-ul-Burhan Fee Tafseer-ul-Quran, Page No. 38)

39. Imam Mehdi will order, the digging out from grave, the dead bodies of Shaikheen, make them alive and will be punished. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 371)

40. "Ayesha was hypocrite". (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Page No. 867)

41. To ask for help from Ali is not a polytheism but a way of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s)". ( Hathi Kay Daant Khanay Kay Aur Dikhanay Kay Aur, Vol. No.2, Page No. 41)

42. Imam Mehdi will kill all the Sunni Scholars. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No.527)

43. The main compilers of Qur'an interpreted changed corrupted and perverted the Holy Qur'an. (Al-Ehtijaj, Page No. 257)

44. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Muawiyah are like idols, they are worst of all the creatures of God. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 519)

45. Ayesha was charged of committing open vulgarity. (Qur'an Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 840)

46. Kalma Tayyibah without Ali Wali ULLAH is false. (Shia Mazhab Haq Hai, Page No. 2)

47. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar were the followers of Shaitan. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 674)

48. Ayesha was not an American or European lady. (Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Hanfia Dar Jawab Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Jaffria, Page No. 64)

49. When God becomes happy, He talks in Persian, when He becomes annoyed, talks in Arabic. (Tareekh-ul-Islam, Page No. 163)

50. In Holy Qur'an (Fahsha) refers to Abu Bakr, (Munkir) refers to Umar, and (Baghi) refers to Usman. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 551)

Now my dear Readers you all only decide what should be the label of such people who are still propagating their false beliefs.

ARE SHIAS KAFFIR?

[Al-Falah]

La howla wa la quwata illah billah!!

how can shia insult the companions in such a horrendous manner!!
the statments you quoted that they say are so vile and disgusting!! to curse the companions is an act of kufr :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ansar Al-Haq]

EXACTLY!

Can't you see Sheik, your comments are offensive to all members.

[BOY-NICE]

Subhannalah! What ridiculous sources! If you are going to quote from Bukhari, provide the specific reference number. Are you aware of the word MAwdoa'

Why do I say these sources are ridiculous? Look what these shia sources say:

1. "Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

2. All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)

3. There are seventeen thousand Ayah in real Qur'an. (Al Shafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 616)

4. Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 420)

5. All the people rejected Islam after the death of the Prophet except three. Miqdad, Abu Zar and Salman Farsi. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 134)

6. "Difference between ALLAH and Ali". (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 66)

7. We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145)

8. No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

9. Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) could not recite Kalma at the time of his death. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 211)

10. When Our Qaim (12th Imam) gets up, Humira (Ayesha) will be raised from the dead so as to be whipped her due punishment, and so as to avenge the daughter of Muhammad (s.a.w.s), Fatima. (Al Shafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 108)

11. Ali is God. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 66)

12. The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)

13. "Changes in Qur'an for Drinker Khulafa-e-Rashideen". (Translation Of Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 479)

14. Shaitan was the first to sworn the oath of allegiance from Abu Bakr in the mosque. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 30)

15. "An accusation of poisoning to Prophet by Ayesha and Hafsa". (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Page No. 118)

16. Imams are God. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 85)

17. Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)

18. Pakistan is mentioned in the Original Holy Qur'an, present Qur'an is meaningless. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari, Page No. 554)

19. It is infidelity (Kufr) to doubt about the infidelity (Kufr) of Hazrat Umar. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Page No. 63)

21. Abdullah Ibn-e-Saba maintained the indispensability of Imamat and claimed that Ali was the true lord. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 234)

22. According to Shia's nothing can remain hidden from the Imams, they have a complete knowledge of past, present and future. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 260)

23. Qur'an was ascended in four parts whereas present Qur'an is consist of three parts. (Shia Aur Tehreef-e-Quran, page No. 62)

24. Those who deny the first of Hazrat Ali Caliphate are infidels. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 3, Page No. 264)

25. Ayesha was an infidel women. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 726)

26. We neither accept that God nor Prophet whose successor is Abu Bakr. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 278)

27. Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)

28. The present Qur'an is abridged where as the Original Qur'an is kept by Imam Mehdi. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari, Page No. 553)

29. Abu Bakr and Umar were more tyrant than Shaitan. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 509)

30. Imam Mehdi will punish Ayesha with strips. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 901)

31. "An acceptance of separate Kalma". (Asool-e-Shariat Fee Aqaid-ul-Shia't, Page No. 423)

32. To hide secret and to weep on the operations of Imam is Jihad. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 226)

33. Shaikheen (r.a) refused to accept the Qur'an which was compiled by Hazrat Ali (r.a). (Fasal-ul-Khitab, Page No. 64)

34. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar among seven doors of the hell. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 500)

35. Ayesha and Hafsa were hypocrite and infidel women. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 900)

36. "An acceptance of alteration in the Kalma Tayyibah". (Shia Mazhab Haq Hai, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 57)

37. Fourteen Imams of Shia's (infallible), the masters of this Universe are desecration of all Prophets and Angels. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. 2, Page No. 29)

38. Qur'an was eaten by God. (Min Kitab-ul-Burhan Fee Tafseer-ul-Quran, Page No. 38)

39. Imam Mehdi will order, the digging out from grave, the dead bodies of Shaikheen, make them alive and will be punished. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 371)

40. "Ayesha was hypocrite". (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Page No. 867)

41. To ask for help from Ali is not a polytheism but a way of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s)". ( Hathi Kay Daant Khanay Kay Aur Dikhanay Kay Aur, Vol. No.2, Page No. 41)

42. Imam Mehdi will kill all the Sunni Scholars. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No.527)

43. The main compilers of Qur'an interpreted changed corrupted and perverted the Holy Qur'an. (Al-Ehtijaj, Page No. 257)

44. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Muawiyah are like idols, they are worst of all the creatures of God. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 519)

45. Ayesha was charged of committing open vulgarity. (Qur'an Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 840)

46. Kalma Tayyibah without Ali Wali ULLAH is false. (Shia Mazhab Haq Hai, Page No. 2)

47. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar were the followers of Shaitan. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 674)

48. Ayesha was not an American or European lady. (Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Hanfia Dar Jawab Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Jaffria, Page No. 64)

49. When God becomes happy, He talks in Persian, when He becomes annoyed, talks in Arabic. (Tareekh-ul-Islam, Page No. 163)

50. In Holy Qur'an (Fahsha) refers to Abu Bakr, (Munkir) refers to Umar, and (Baghi) refers to Usman. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 551)

Now my dear Readers you all only decide what should be the label of such people who are still propagating their false beliefs.

ARE SHIAS KAFFIR?

Ansar Al-Haq It seems that you have been addicted to that filthy Naasbi websites thats why you are keep pasting same thing again and again . It was just couple of days before that you were Humiliated for posting such lies and fabrications in other thread.

[hamid_al-murid]

salaam ron

use it or lose it

wa s-salaam

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Jazakallah kahyr for your kind words BOY-NICE.

Was I humiliated? all you said was that I quoted from sources that weren't authentic. These are different points. If you had read them you would notice that. These are lias and fabrications? Then you certainly have many fabricated and dihonest literature in shiaism because i have only quoted your own sources.

It is not a Naasibi website. They love all the khulafa rashideen equally. Why do you say the website is filthy? Refute with points not insults.

btw, Eid Mubarak to you too.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

If you guys feel we're not getting anywhere, vote in the general conversations to blow this forum (sectarian differences) to smithereens.

[BOY-NICE]

Eid Mubaarik to everyone.


These are lias and fabrications?

yes most of these.


Then you certainly have many fabricated and dihonest literature in shiaism because i have only quoted your own sources.

Thats doesn mean we have fabricated literature in shiasm rather it means that nawasib are fabricating stuff in order to malign shias.


It is not a Naasibi website. They love all the khulafa rashideen equally. Why do you say the website is filthy? Refute with points not insults.

Who told them not to love the people who according to their belief are pious. But that doesnt mean they have right to fabricate things and stoop too low to malign other's beleifs.


Btw, the sectarian forum is really not giving any benefit to any1 rather its donouncing one anther.

[Ron]

Don't ever ask why Muslims are in such terrible shape...just look in the mirror or read these posts. Even after I asked that no one malign anyone else you still continue to do it. There is no mercy in some people's hearts and that's so sad because they call themselves "Muslim."