The Trinity and Christ's Divinity

[Believer]

Hello, I'm Believer, a new member who is proud to be apart of this site. I'm also a devout Christian. I want to discuss here about the Trinity and Christ's divinity. All muslims should listen to this.

Who is it on this earth that can declare what God can and cannot be? It makes sense to me that God exists as the Trinity because God, unlike us, is not limited to one body or one form.
Just because God as the Trinity doesn't make sense to some people and the word "trinity" is not used in the Bible doesn't mean it is false.
God should not make complete sense to us, He is far beyond our comprehension. If you don't see any mystery behind God then you have a serious problem.

How is Jesus Lord?
God's final revelation for mankind was so infinitly important of a task that it could not be delivered by a man, So God came down as Christ do deliver a final message how God want's us to be, as by Christ's example of doing good works and hating no one. But Christ came to deliver us something else that no earthly man could deliver, an action. This action of giving up his life
selflessly for the salvation of all the world (actually for all those who believe in Him, there's no free ride to Heaven). Jesus was following the Father's will. Jesus didn't want to suffer, but he did it because there was no other way for mankind to be saved. No man can bear another's iniquities, but God can.
Jesus was not just a man, but God. Jesus is God with a human face. We are made in the image of God, can't he come in the image of us?
Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, quite evidently Christ was not created by two sex cells, but was divinely concieved by the Spirit.

Jesus is the Father's Son?
Here's an excerpt from 2 Samuel 7:11-14 :
"The LORD reveals to you (David) that he will establish a house for you. And when your time comes and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your heir after you from your house, and I will make his kingdom firm. It id he who shall build a house for my name. And I will make his royal throne firm forever. I will be a Father to him, and he shall be a Son to me."
God calls this descendant from David's house His Son. This is final. Who can question what God

says?

Further proof that Jesus is Messiah and the Son.
The prophet Daniel saw many visions, some of which were of the Messiah
Daniel 7:13-14 says this:
"As the visions of the night continued, I saw one like a Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven; when he reached to the Ancient One and was presented before him he recieved dominion,
glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed"
Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man. He was made glorified by the Father

Psalm 110:1
"The Lord says to you, my Lord 'Take your throne at my right hand while I make your enemies a foot stool'"
This theme of the Father glorifying his Son comes up alot in the ancient prophesies.
Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father.

A very convincing prophesy showing Christ is Lord
Isaiah 9:5-6
"For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests. They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace. His dominion is vast and forever peaceful, from David's throne and over his kingdom, which he confirms and sustains by judgement
and justice both now and forever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will do this."
Quite some names to call a son, right? Maybe this is the Son.
Christ is the Prince of Peace

What about the Spirit?
As Jesus was sent by the Father, so the Spirit was sent to stay with us by Christ.
John 15:26 reads:
"When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me."

Isaiah 44:3 reads:
"I will pour out water upon the thirsty grouns, and streams across the dry land; I will pour out my spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing upon your descendants"

[Rima]

Bismilahi rahmani rahim:

thank you God for making me a muslim follower of your right path ..
dear believer :

you said:
It makes sense to me that God exists as the Trinity because God, unlike us, is not limited to one body or one form

let see how much sense you`re making:

you said:God is unlike us so he is three (the holy trinity)
now look: (the same game)
God is unlike us so he is four (the holy quartity)
God is unlike us so he is five (the holy Pentaty)
Gode is unlike us so he is seven (the holy heptaty)
and so on , we can goo all to 125 gods and more

ohh sorry don`t forget the holy dualituy too

yes my dear friend , God is unlike us , so he won`t share his glory with other Gods , just like human kings
Yes my dera God is unlike us , so he won`t have sons , duaghters , uncles , step father and grandsons

now repeat after me:
forgive me God for my balsphemy , by making you a nother two copies
Forgive me God for making you a human , having sons and wife
forgive me God for twisting Jesus`s words and spining your words

amen , I will pray for you

[Rima]

dear believer:
your post is all holes , I mean I can start a new topic for every sentence of yours , please excuse my arrogance but , you really making me laughhhhhhh
let take a tour in your post:
you said:

Jesus is the Father's Son?

I asume he is the father`s son , because he had no biological father

the question is then:

1.who is Adam`s father (at least Jesus has mother)
2.if Jesus is God father , so who is EVE`s mother (don`t tell me , is it God`s wife <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

3.what about MELCHEZEDEK:
melchezedek has no mother no father ,has no beginning no end he was made unlike son of God

Hebrews 7

1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

the questions are:
1.why don`t you worship Adam (he is as twice God as Jesus)
2.why don`t you worship EVE (ohh sorry no female God am I right)
3.why don`t you worship melechezedec (he is more divin than five Jesuses togther

repeat after me:
Forgive me my God for insulting you and making you a multiplying god

Amen

[Rima]

and one last reply :

you said:
for the salvation of all the world (actually for all those who believe in Him, there's no free ride to Heaven)


lets pretend that Jesus is still living with us here , let say that Jesus is with us in this forum and let ask him:

DEAR JESUS: how to get to heaven??

what do think his unswer would be ??

please answer my questions, at least the last one , I`m really curious what would Jesus say about the salvation ??

blessings

P.S. have you seen Apple pie (my Banana) ??



Edited by - Rima on 08/18/2003 11:14:37

[Believer]

Dear Rima:
Let me explain myself.
Adam was created from the earth.
Eve was created from a rib from Adam.
God is their heavenly Father, he created them though.
Melechezedek is just a man also because it says:
"but made like unto the Son of God"
He was made in the image of the Son of God, Jesus.
All of us are made in the image of God.
Why couldn't God come down in our image?
Jesus is one with the Father, not created however.

I made numerous quotes in my posting from the ancient books of the Bible that point to Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God.

I'm profoundly sorry if I said any blasphemous againsy your God,
but he isn't mine. Nor is Ahura Mazda, the God of the Zoroastrians,
my God either.

Jesus says this about salvation from the Bible:

John 8: 12
"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life"

But, you have to understand what Christ says about himself.

Matthew 16: 13-17
"Jesus asked his disciples, 'Who do you say the Son of Man is?'
They replied, 'Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others say Jeremaiah or one of the prophets.' He said to them 'But who do you say that I am?' Simon Peter said in reply 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.' Jesus said in reply 'Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not reveal this to you, but my Father."

Jesus also says that he must die and be raised on the third day.

So if you follow Jesus and believe what he says and have faith in Him, you will be assured 100% of salvation.

But this doen't mean we sit around like bums, we still must do good deeds and good works also, because Christ also says this:

Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of Man will come with His angels in His Father's glory and then He will repay everyone accoeding to his conduct"

I hope this makes sense to you.
Peace to you.
Blessed be God forever!

[Rima]

dear friend:

your post is full of holes , actually I could start a new topic on each statement of yours

I don`t like to jump from one to another subject,lets focus on one subject at the time .
here why don`t you start with the old material (PUZZLE NUMBER 9) :

http://www.understanding-islam.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=529

please explain to us what somebody`s Jacket has to do with Ahura Suzuki?? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ahura mazda (or Nisan it deosn`t matter )is not my God
my God is the only one , mine , yours , Jesus`s , Muhamed`s , he is the only one

blessings



Edited by - Rima on 08/19/2003 01:10:32

[Believer]

Dear friend:
Okay, you have made an argument that does make sense. Paul may have contradicted himself. He's a man and he makes mistakes. But what was stated on that site is irrelevant. That small error has nothing to do with the over all message of my faith. Jesus is the living Word of God, as long as He is totally perfect and his teachings were recorded properly, which they were, then it doesn't matter if the written Word has an occasionally very small and irrelevant writing in one of Paul's many letters. He wrote many other letters that were lost or ruined.

I have more serious questions to raise about the Quran and Muhammed. There are many prophesies in the Bible pertaining to Christ as the Messiah. I posted a few these. There are absolutely no prophecies in the Bible that pertain to Muhammed as any prophet.
If there are any, you gotta post them for me.

Also, the early Christian theologians that compiled the New Testament
were very selective in choosing the books and letters that make up the present New testament. They excluded many books that were corrupt or written way after Christ's life. These were the apocryphal books. They contained stories including Christ speaking as a baby and little Christ making clay birds and turning them into real birds. These stories our found in the Quran. Why is the Quran relying on corrupt and questionable books for some of it's stories.
Peace to you.

[Rima]

Allahu akber , he just admit it <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

believer said:
Paul may have contradicted himself. He's a man and he makes mistakes

so in other words , PAUL (the inspired) may have contradict himself (while he was inspired) and may made a mistake (duiring inspiration)

so maybe all Biblical writers have mad a mistake <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

thank you my friend you have made my day <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Rima]

u akber , another one:

Believer said:
He (PAUL) may wrote many other letters that were lost or ruined.

he admit it , that some inspired letters were actually lost ...
thank you my friend

[Rima]

nd , from my experience with Christians , I know that you would go around and around the question , never get to the subject ??
you remid me to my dear kitty cat , she run after her tail trying to catch it , so she goes in circle for hours , but never get to the point <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>



Edited by - Rima on 08/19/2003 12:22:51

[Believer]

You don't understand! The Bible was written by men, but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Gospel was written down. The Good News was written down accurately. Just because there's a small tit-tat in one of Paul's letters does not suddenly mean my scriptures are wrong. Besides, the Quran really isn't a purely perfect book,
its too full of "holes" and unanswered questions. It directly denies Christian teachings without giving any real reason.

[Rima]

quote= believer said:

You don't understand! The Bible was written by men, but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
================================================== ================

lets put this staement in a context :
so you`re saying that Paul was inspired when he asked his friend Timoty to bring his Jacket <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> II Timothy 4:10-13

or Paul was inspired when he told us that he would spend the winter in Florida <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

it seems to me my friend that you have no Idea what the inspired word sound like ,do you mind if I help you ??



Edited by - Rima on 08/20/2003 12:09:56

Edited by - Rima on 08/20/2003 12:10:28

[Believer]

Oh Rima,
That's all silliness! That has nothing do to with the message of my Faith!
It seems to me you don't know what inspiration means!
How do you think things were like before the Bible was compiled in the early Christian Community? The Word was spread by mouth.
Paul had to write letters to specific Communities to keep up their faith and to help them with their particular problems.
So he referred to his friends a few times, goodness!
Read my other postings.
Peace to you.