the inspired word of God( especialy for apple)

[Rima]

Puzzle number 9(of 1250 puzzles)

they said that every word , every letter of the Bible is inspired God`s word, word by word ..let see

if you ask mr. Banana pie , was Paul (the apostle) inspired by God when he wrote his letters , banana pie`s answer would be : OH YEAH

Was Paul inspired By God :

Paul (the inspired) tells us (in God`s inspired Book) that he is determined to winter in Nicopolis (personaly I don`t care , do you?)

Titus 3:12

12 When I shall send Artemas unto thee, or Tychicus, be diligent to come unto me to Nicopolis: for I have determined there to winter.

what has this statement to do with God and his inspiration

the inspired Paul , asked his friend timothy (in the inspired Book), to bring him his jacket and his books:[/B]

II timothy 4:10-13

10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.
12 And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus.
13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

why are Paul`s jacket and his books , so important for us , so God has decided to put it in his inspired Book ?

so was Paul inspired by God , when he wrote his letters??

if we study this matter closely you will find many obvious examples of Paul admiting that he was not inspired ?


1 Corinthians 7:10-12

10Now, for those who are married I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. 11But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else go back to him. And the husband must not leave his wife.

in this Verse Paul is saying that this is not his word , but God`s words , but in the upcoming verses we find Paul saying:

12Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man...........

very obvious confession , Paul admited that this is not the God`s word but his own

one more obvious example:

1 Corinthians 7:25

25Now, about the young women who are not yet married. I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his kindness has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you. 26Because of the present crisis......

again Paul admiting that he does not have the Lord`s permission
one more example:

Galatians 5:2

2Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ cannot help you.

he said I PAUL , he did not say I THE INSPIRED PAUL

one more example :

1 Corinthians 1


14I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15for now no one can say they were baptized in my name. 16(Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. I don't remember baptizing anyone else.)

this is very obvious that Paul has no Idea what he was talking about ,he said:

1.he did not baptize any except 2 men : Crispus and Gaius
2.all of a sudden he accidently remebered that he actualy baptized the household of Stephanus also
3.then again the inspired Paul does not remeber baptizing anybody else.( so it could be one or 20000 baptized , Paul is not sure while he was inspired )

so what is going on here ,it seems that the inspired man is unsure of what he is doing


so question to apple Banana & CO , why is Paul`s Jacket and Books are so important , Why Paul wasn`t sure what he has done before (in his so called the inspired letter)

and who cares where would Paul spend his winter ???<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

any comment from Banana ???

I challenge Banana and his Exmuslims company if they can give any answer ?

blessings





Edited by - Rima on 08/17/2003 06:12:31

Edited by - Rima on 08/18/2003 00:56:30

[Rima]

does this verse sound like "inspiration" to you guys???

Second Timothy: 4:19

19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.
20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

other words , Paul in his personal letter is asking Timothy to salut his friends, he said , Timothy please say Hi to my old neighbor , Don`t forget Prisca , Aquila , banana and Ali Baba
please send my regard to all Exmuslimson <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

PAUL THE INSPIRED

oh come on Banana , you can do it (just watch me )


sure thing that these guys have no clue how the inspired word sound or look like

hey Banana say hello to beth too



Edited by - Rima on 08/17/2003 06:31:09

[Rima]

lets see , please send my best wishes to all my old neighbur :
said the inspired Paul :

Romans 16:21-22

21 Timotheus my workfellow, and Lucius, and Jason, and Sosipater, my kinsmen, salute you.
22 I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.

what has somebody`s personal wishes , regards and hellos has to do with Inspiration , and God

in fact who cares ??
anybody saw banana pie somewhere ??<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Ronnie]

You know why Rima is asking where Apple Pie is? Answer these please.

[Rima]

You know why Rima is asking where Apple Pie is? Answer these please.




you mean the inspired Banana pie , he went on vacation : for I (Banana) have determined there to winter....Titus 3:12

my dear Ronnie, an inspired man won`t have to worry about where to spend his winter vacation , neither he needs the whole process of "inspiration" to send his regards to his relatives .

p.s. Banan please send my best wishes to stavro and co (I am inspired)

by the way this stavro has at least 7 different nick names ,to look like too many posple having a " DIALOGUE" .........LOL




Edited by - Rima on 02/22/2004 10:22:22

[Rima]

the verse of today:

the first letter of banana to muslims 255:1254

bring my jacket and say hello to mom and dad , hey , don`t forget my uncle

amen amen

Edited by - Rima on 03/08/2004 02:15:16

[C-R-O-W-]

Oah, Rims, Rima, Rima.....

Let me ask ya, who is the Apostle Paul to you?


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[Lamp Of Light]

Peace and truth to you,

You do know that they are epistles ? Letters ?

Such things usually include greetings and partings. Paul is relating to the churchs his understandings from God and trying to spiritually guide them. Frankly I found paul to be right on the money in virtually every single thing he says. I only found a couple things that I was uncertain of. Not bad considering the majority of the epstles in the book are his. In other words, if I had written the letters, I am quite sure I would not have done anywhere near as good as he.

So I believe the epistles were included because they are "right on the money" with the gospel message being sent. They reveal spiritual truths, and help us to solidify understanding of the gospels.


Blessed is the Lord our God!

Edited by - Lamp Of Light on 03/08/2004 16:36:43

[lucas]

Peace,

i'm not pressuming anything. i shall leave it up to you, but i will say this, this passage is quite odd.

Luke 1 reads: Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed. (kjv)

he doesn't say that he was commanded by god...he just says, "i thought it seemed good to me".

may peace by with you.

[Lamp Of Light]

Yes, but you are forgetting he has received the teaching directly from those who were witnesses right from the beginning.

"Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;"



The real question you need to ask yourself is what is "THE WORD" of God. We know for certain that ALL THINGS were created by "the word". It is Gods authority, His power. What is God without His word ? And is not the powerof God the word itself ?

Here it comes. Who would want to seperate God from His word ? Anybody you can think of ? yet we know Gods word was sent to mary. Muhammed even tells you this. Yet he also tells you attach nothign to God ...does he not ? Now you tell me...


Is there ANYONE ..ONE PERSON....you can think of...who wants to seperate God and his Word ?!!!


See it and believe. I love you.

Blessed is the Lord our God!

[Rima]

hello to all nice members (banana you are excluded, sorry) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[quote]by Crow :

Oah, Rims, Rima, Rima.....

Let me ask ya, who is the Apostle Paul to you?

Paul is someone who was looking for his lost jacket , while he was inspired ,Paul took his time to send his regards and hellos to all his friends

now the question is:
was paul inspired while he was asking for his jacket ..the answer is obviously no

next question would be: are all Paul`s letters part of the inspiration, your answer would be yes (without any delay)

so the question would be,again: does anybody need to be inspired to ask for his lost jacket?

and now just for you , let me quote the verse of today:

Banana`s fourth letter to crow 125:211454

please say hello to all banana`s, hey, don`t forget mom and dad , see ya next letter ...

amen amen amen




Genesis 1221:222525
and god make a sweet little yellow thing , and God saw that it was good, he tasted it , it was sweet , he said, let be called BANANA

Edited by - Rima on 03/08/2004 20:03:17

[C-R-O-W-]

Oah Rima, Rima….

I know you like banana but the Apostle Paul is no monkey.

I think the point you are struggling to understand is “what is inspiration”?

Since the Apostle Paul was a believer in the Messiah he was a follower of the “Way”.
With that belief, he was also baptised by the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God was living in him.
That Spirit brings certain knowledge into Paul’s spirit. That means that the Spirit of God reveals certain knowledge into the spirit of Paul and that truth will stay with Paul forever.
Now since he was writing a letter [say to Titus or Timothy] Paul penned down on the paper the revelation he received as well as whatever he needed to tell the receiver.

Think of Revelation from a Christian way, then you wont err.

Peace.




"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[Hischam Khan]

C-R-O-W

Would you say that you have the Spirit of God in you?

[C-R-O-W-]

Yes, i would.

Peace.

"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[Hischam Khan]

Peace to you too,

If then you have the Spirit of God just as Paul has it and you're able to make errors than surely Paul is too, right?

Peace

[Rima]

hello to all good people (Banan you are excluded , sorry :D)
interestnig dialogue :

[quote] by Hischam :
C-R-O-W

Would you say that you have the Spirit of God in you?

and Crow`s answer(without any delay) is:

[quote] by CROW
Yes, i would.

let me proclaim our C R O W as the newest apostol ..congratulations to all christians

<red>the verse of today:
the first letter of Crow the apostol to all bananas 25251 : 2155</red>

Bring my jackets , my shoes, don`t forget my pijamas , and say hello to banana .

amen , amen amen


Edited by - Rima on 03/09/2004 12:24:05

Edited by - Rima on 03/09/2004 12:24:49

[C-R-O-W-]

The Apostle Paul is only human; of course he can make errors. But when it comes to the work of God, and the heavenly knowledge he received, he would do the best he can to express the heavenly knowledge he received with guidance from the Comforter, to his hearers.
But if it were a direct revelation which was an instruction, then he, I don’t believe would make any mistakes.

If the Comforter gave me certain instructions, I too would do the best as I can to fulfil the command I was given. And God wouldn’t give instructions that lead to a dead end, thus he would make a way for me to fulfil his Will. Amen.

Peace.


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[C-R-O-W-]

# let me proclaim our C R O W as the newest apostol ..congratulations to all christians
the verse of today:
the first letter of Crow the apostol to all bananas 25251 : 2155
Bring my jackets , my shoes, don`t forget my pijamas , and say hello to banana .
amen , amen amen#

If only you knew, if only.
Peace.


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[Hischam Khan]

Peace C-R-O-W,

But this means both of you were able to make mistakes. So, what we should do is accept that Paul's work was his understanding and interpretation. Just as your work won't be absolutley perfect (yet you claim to have the "comforter"/"Holy Spirit") so too would his work be imperfect. We shouldn't look at it as Divine; he was human like you and many other scholars and we know that they too make mistakes.

Similarly I'd like to remind those of my Muslim brothers and sisters who think that the four great imams and the scholars of Hadith are perfect; that they are NOT.

PEACE BE TO YOU ALL!

[C-R-O-W-]

I can see where you are coming from; Paul was a human like me. We could and have both made mistakes in our life.
Paul received certain heavenly knowledge. I say heavenly because as the Apostle says, “am I striving to please men? …. the Good News which was preached by me… is not according to man. For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Yeshua the Messiah.”
I say this is a divine message. Just like Paul, there are some born anew believers who have had no messenger preach to them, but rather God divinely imparted his truth in their hearts. Do they err in their testimony? i say no. Do they err in their in the message that is imparted in their hearts? i don't believe so.

#So, what we should do is accept that Paul's work was his understanding and interpretation.#
From my thinking, Paul had the revelation for a purpose, for the advancement of the Gospel according to the will of God. When Paul had the revelation, he would preach it according to HOW he received it. HOW Paul received the revelation was entirely in the hands of God. He revealed it to Paul the way he wanted Paul to see it.
To me, I don’t see how preaching the revelation God gives you can be difficult, for God gives it to you for the specific task of proclaiming it. Especially when it comes to the Gospel, it is simple and straightforward and God equips you with the sufficient needs. And don’t forget that Paul prayed and fasted to know the will of God once he was a follower of the “Way”.
E.g. I don’t think the Apostle preached the revelation in 1 Corinthians 15 according to his understands and interpretation, rather according HOW he received it, which was determined by the foreknowledge of God. Do I look at it as divinely inspired? I say yes. Because no disciple came to preach to him, rather the risen Messiah appeared to him.

I am doing some searching concerning other subject Paul mentions, for example Circumcision, Sabbath, the Law [Torah] etc… When I do finish searching them, I will make it known to you. But if you want to discuss about a particular subject, I am willing to discuss it with you.
I on the other hand, am not in the same position as the Apostle. He received revelation and he spoke it. I don’t have the same revelation as Paul [but we both have the same Spirit]. The Spirit works in me in a different way.

If i make a mistake, since i have dont have revelation like Paul, my mistake is mine and not my interpritation baised on the revelation, since i had no revelation to interprit in the first place.

Peace.


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

Edited by - C-R-O-W- on 03/10/2004 00:36:07

[Rima]

Thanks CROW for your interesting reply , very intereting theory about revelation but with errors , thanks

let me comment on this:


By C R O W the apostol:
[quote]
Paul Paul received certain heavenly knowledge.

the question is again: does it take a "HEAVENLY KNOWLEDGE" to ask for your lost jacket ??
what about your socks, shoes , what about underwear??

does anybody need a "HEAVENLY KNOWLEDGE" to send his hellos to banana..

this is the question which you are escaping
(I have to admit it, you are an expert) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

now the verse of today just for you:

the seventh letter of C R O W the apostol to all bananas 2525:45468

I have recieved the "heavenly knowladge" and I am asking you all , WHERE IS MY JACKET ???

amen amen



Edited by - Rima on 03/10/2004 15:55:24

[Hischam Khan]

Peace to you C-R-O-W,

Correct me if I am wrong but according to you Christians:

1-The Father is God

2-The Son is God

3-The Holy Ghost is God

So you say that you have the Holy Ghost in you. You also say that Paul had it in him. If you have God in you; how can you possibly make a mistake?

Secondly, you state that the difference between you and Paul is that he received revelation while you didn’t. But that is what he says. How do you know he is correct? He could be misinterpreting. You did say that you both have the Holy Ghost in the same way and you can both be mistaken so he could have been mistaken, right?

Peace.

[C-R-O-W-]

Dear Rima,

#this is the question which you are escaping
(I have to admit it, you are an expert)#
#does it take a "HEAVENLY KNOWLEDGE" to ask for your lost jacket ??#

Thanks for yo’ compliments (at least that’s how I am taking it)…. but getting to the main issue, The Apostle had the Comforter living in him [for that was what Jesus said the Comforter would be like] and then the Comforter reveals things to the Apostle, the Apostle wrote down the revelation he received.
But lets not look too far ahead and concentrate a little on what Paul’s writings were. They were Epistles addressed to certain peoples. The Apostle’s writing was to encourage them and teach them the right conducts worthy to be called disciples of Jesus Messiah. His writings too contain future events that will soon take place, for example the rapture.
I will tell you what, lets take that [the rapture] as an example. Paul wrote in his letter about rapture, but does that mean it was the first time it was talked about? No. Jesus spoke about it beforehand.
So I think a lot of the writings of Paul had to do with sayings that had already been said, but it also contained new revelations, fresh from the throne of God.
So when the issue about a so-called jacket [which actually a cloak] is talked about, one would be suspicious if you said it took ‘heavenly knowledge’ to ask for your jacket.
The cloak that the Apostle spoke about was not part of the revelation he received; rather it was part of the letter Paul wanted the recipient to be informed about.

p.s. thank you for ordaining me an apostle but I don’t think they exist any more.

[I]#Banana`s fourth letter to crow 125:211454
please say hello to all banana`s, hey, don`t forget mom and dad , see ya next letter ...
amen amen amen #

Yes, all bananas have missed you; they said, “Wish you were here”. Mom and dad also send you their hugs and kisses. Chaw.

Peace.


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

Edited by - C-R-O-W- on 03/12/2004 02:29:48

[C-R-O-W-]

Hischam Khan……

#according to you Christians:#

I don’t know about every Christian, but I will give you my thoughts on this, but I am saying this without the full knowledge, and depth study of Bible.
I believe The Father is the supreme God, the Supreme Yahweh Elohim.
I believe Jesus Christ [Yeshua Messiah] is Yahweh’s Messiah, eternally ordained to be the One who is at Yahweh’s right hand, given power and authority like no other, all for the glory of Yahweh.
I believe the Holy Spirit to be the Spirit issued forth from Yahweh to aid believers in their daily life. But one should never neglect the Holiness of this Spirit for if that Spirit is grieved by a careless word against the Spirit, it is the ONE UNFORGIVABLE SIN IN THE BIBLE.

#how can you possibly make a mistake?#
Ah, well, lets not forget that we are not robots.
Just because God is with you it doesn’t mean you are automatically changed from a ‘free’ willed human being to a robotic human being with no ‘free’ will.
The Holy Spirit speaks to you. After you have heard the voice or after the truth is imparted in your heart, it is up to you to obey the word or disobey.

#How do you know he is correct?#

Well, since quite a chunk of his letters is commonsense, and for the other parts it goes inline with Old Testament sayings, what he says also makes sense [what I have read and studied so far]. I also have faith in his writings. So far I see nothing wrong in his words.


Let me sum it up with the Apostles words
“Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you remain in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them. From infancy, you have known the sacred writings which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus. Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work……
Flee from youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But refuse foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing that they generate strife. The Lord's servant must not quarrel, but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient, in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth, and they may recover themselves out of the devil's snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.”

It Just Makes Sense.

#so he could have been mistaken, right?#

Well, I have faith and believe. I believe because I have experienced. Not just me but my whole family.
As Paul wrote, if you believe in Jesus, you will be persecuted. And true to his words, My father and his family were persecuted. And you may ask, “Why they were persecuted?”
Again, they were persecuted because they spoke the Word of God. Not just the Word, as in quoting from Bible, but rather my father had a revelation; that came from the Holy Spirit/Comforter. He was told to prophesy, so he did. The people he went to were evil men, and because they didn’t like his message they tried to kill him. Out of Gods mercy, he protected him. And true to my father’s message, the prophecy came true and the people whom my father went to now feel ashamed for not listening to the words of God [for they had to pay a great price, they were told unless you obey, your disobedience will cause your sons to perish].
There are many other things I can tell you, but I mentioned this story to tell you that Paul writings were the writings my father believed and they are the writings I have put my faith in too.
There ate similarities between my father and Paul’s writings. Paul wrote the revelation he had in his letter while my father went and spoke the revelation he had.
Could they make a mistake in their delivering of the revelation? Perhaps; subconsciously. But since they were both servants of the Most High God, I believe, since they were both lovers of God, they were submissive to His will being done on earth.

Peace.


"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

Edited by - C-R-O-W- on 03/12/2004 02:39:21

[Lamp Of Light]

Peace and truth to you C-R-O-W,

I find you to be very close to my heart. All you are saying is truth in regards to what you know. It is correct knowledge. I live with that very same comfroter inside me. It sanctifies me, even when I am weak, it seems I am strong. It creates a quickening upon the way. At times it even seems it is to much to bear (liek force feeding and gasping...it overwhelmes). I suppose if I am to be smothered with anything, there could not possibly be anything better ! hehe A great transformation has occured in my life the past several months.

I just wanted to add that the Holy Spirit is like a "liquid fire" that proceeds from God. I think that is what leaves somthing inside us. Somthing that keeps prodding us forward, and keeps guiding the way, both to understanding and in the direction/course of life. It has even placed complete understandings into my mind out of nowhere (many times). I received one liek that, not to long ago, in regards to revelation of John, (The Comforter specifically told me that the 144,000 that were to be saved were not virgins of women, but virgins of spirit. Further the 144,000 is an all inclusive number, this meaning that all of mankind who are pure of spirit will be saved.

It is truly comforting to see a reflection in you. May God bless and keep you & your family always in His tender mercies. In truth and love.

Blessed is the Lord our God!

[Hischam Khan]

Peace to all,

C-R-O-W writes:

“Spirit issued forth from Yahweh to aid believers in their daily life.”


So does that mean that you do not believe that the Spirit is God? If you do not then there is no Trinity (or Triune God).


You wrote:

“God is with you it doesn’t mean you are automatically changed”


Yes, but you do not say that God (the Spirit) is with you but rather that He is in you. Unless you mean to tell us that the Spirit is not God.

You wrote:

“It Just Makes Sense.”


I respect your right to your opinion but not everyone agrees that everything he says makes sense. Neither is everyone agreed that what he says goes in line with what is in the Old Testament.

Peace












Edited by - Hischam Khan on 03/12/2004 08:02:25

[Lamp Of Light]

Peace and truth Hischam Khan,

I cannot speak for him, but it sounds like he is aware of, and speakign the exact same thing that I am.

The Spirit is indeed from God (a part of Him). It remain swith us, but it does not "make our choices" for us. We must still make our own choices, but the Spirit makes us painfully aware when we chose wrong. We might not even be told we were wrong in the choice, but the choice will become manifest in a bad way when it is wrong. In other words (speaking for myself here), when I choose wrongly, there is a chastisement, and I almost immeaditaly will recognize the wrong choice (when I say immeaditaly I mean within a couple days) SO what happens then is that the Spirit becomes a guide. If I choose wrong, then things around me will show me, if I choose right, again things around me will affirm it. If i am uncertain of things and pray about it, (not always, but many times) then the Spirit helps guide or lead me to the right answer. This is how it seems to work for me. In addition to these things, I find that the Spirit keeps my nose to the grindstone. Its like a close friend who is helping you to run a race. The friend is always there urging you forward, keeping you focused on the end of the race.

What I am trying to demonstrate is to affirm what C-R-O-W is saying. It is true. As you can see though, it is still up to the individual to make his choices, and the Spirit does not lay everything out for you on a silver platter. In other words we must still continue to walk the path, the SPirit is not goign to walk the path for us, but it will guide us, assisst us, give us understanding , so that we can walk the path truly and correctly.

So at baptism in the spirit we do not lose our free will. We retain it. I hope this helps you to understand betetr what we are saying. (I believe C-R-O-W is trying to tell you this same thing)

In conclusion I would just like to state while it appears God has three primary parts of Him (which is called the trinity), there is only ONE God. His word and His Spirit are all a part of Him. Hear Oh Isreal our God is ONE. So I cannot really accept that God is a trinity. God is one. I can , however, undestand the meaning of the trinity doctrine as they put it forth. I myself, however, would never have put forth such a doctrine. I think it is misleading and creates confusion in the hearts of men.


I just wanted to add in what some of the prophets said about this:



Isaiah 32:15
Until the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high, And the wilderness becomes a fertile field, And the fertile field is considered as a forest.

Isaiah 42:
5 Thus says God the LORD,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,
6
"I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness,
I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,
And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the nations,
7
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the dungeon
And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
8
"I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.
9
"Behold, the former things have come to pass,
Now I declare new things;
Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you."




Isaiah 44:3
'For I will pour out water on the thirsty land And streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring And My blessing on your descendants;


Joel 2:
28
" It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29
"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.


Blessed is the Lord our God!

Edited by - Lamp Of Light on 03/12/2004 16:45:28

[Rima]

hello to all nice people (not you banana)

let see here:
quote by C R O W , the inspired:
The cloak that the Apostle spoke about was not part of the revelation he received;

C R OW just admited that : II timothy 4:10-13 is not an inspired part of the inpired book

thanks C R O W , I wonder what banana and Ibn taharika think about this ??(have you seen them anywhere??) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

today`s verse would be:

[B]the last letter (one of them anyway) of C R O W the apostle to taharika the banana boy <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> 12145:163541

somebody answers me : W H E R E - I S
M Y - J A C K E T T T T T T T ??


amen


Edited by - Rima on 03/12/2004 16:46:21

[Hischam Khan]

Peace,

From where do you get that the Spirit of God is God? Also, what do you mean by “a part of Him"? Further, what do you mean by God being three parts? No offence, but it sounds as though you are describing something like a ^pie that can be cut into three pieces; God is not like that.

It seems to me like what you are describing (regarding the Spirit) is the God given conscience that man is provided with. In the Qur’an God describes this:

<marquee>“[They say that man shall not be raised for judgement.] No, I present the Day of Resurrection as a witness; And no, I present man’s reproaching <font color="#FF0000">conscience</font> as a witness [to the fact that man shall surely be faced with the consequences of his deeds].” S 75:1-2</marquee>

So, what you are describing to me sounds like the <font color="#FF0000">conscience</font>. There is nothing different that you have that other humans don’t. You said that having the Spirit does not mean that you lose your free-will. So what does it give you? Are you sure that you are not mixing it up with conscience?

Peace

[Lamp Of Light]

Peace and truth,
Ok Hischam Khan, if what I am describing to you is the conscience, then what is the Holy SPirit that muhammed says Jesus was strengthened by ? Further what is the word , a portion of a spirit from himself, which muhammed says God sent to mary ?

I am pleased to hear your understanding on these things. Especially your understanding of the Holy Spirit (which muhammed does not seem to talk about very much at all, as a matter of fact, I only saw it really mentioned in regards to his dialogue about Jesus. Don't you find that unusual ?

Blessed is the Lord our God!

Edited by - Lamp Of Light on 03/12/2004 21:54:02

[C-R-O-W-]

WOW..WOW..WOW..WOW..WOW..and more WOW...

I just came across some very very intresting inforation.
I was reading it and it gave me a very funney feeling.
I was shocked at what it said at first but as i kept reding on, i couldn't help but get excited so excited that i started to lough and cry.
Man o Man, i dont know what it means but the kind of info i found, I can't just overlook it. I need to finish reading it, and boy, i dont know how to discribe it but dare i say, i might need to see things in a new light.
Dear Hischam, i would very much like to suspend this line of conversation we are having now until i follow up on the info i have come across. Please, don't think i am a chicken running away from the topic, rather see it as though i am trying to persue a topic that is very important which actually has to do with The Father, Son, Spirit.

It is big but i hope to get a grasp of this new info and its sayings and compare it to what i know of Old and New Testament in seven days if not fourteen days.

Forgive me for pausing this topic but i believe i am on to something, i think it has great potential so i ask you to very kindly to be patient with me.

Peace

"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[Hischam Khan]

Dear Hischam, i would very much like to suspend this line of conversation we are having now until i follow up on the info i have come across. Please, don't think i am a chicken running away from the topic, rather see it as though i am trying to persue a topic that is very important which actually has to do with The Father, Son, Spirit.

No worries C-R-O-W please go ahead. I myself have a lot of posts to respond to plus essays and coursework from College. Trying to learn and search is always a good thing. I wish you the best.

Peace.

[Hischam Khan]

To Lamp of Light:


”then what is the Holy SPirit that muhammed says Jesus was strengthened by ?”

It is a title given to the Angel Gabriel.

”Further what is the word , a portion of a spirit from himself, which muhammed says God sent to mary ?”

Excuse me for asking but what have we been talking about all this time? Please do read my posts about the “word” and the “Spirit” and tell where I don’t make sense to you.

”the Holy Spirit (which muhammed does not seem to talk about very much at all, as a matter of fact, I only saw it really mentioned in regards to his dialogue about Jesus. Don't you find that unusual ?”

What I find strange is that you talk like this; yet you also mentioned that you only began reading Surah 2. Then you criticise like that and say that you are merely learning. Well my friend, there is a way of going about it and you didn't pick the right one. You could surely have presented your criticism in a better manner without making hasty and ignorant conclusions. As I stated before The “Spirit” which Jesus (P) received was also given to the first of God’s creation and thus all of us. If this is supposed to prove that he is Divine in anyway then so are we. Here are some references:

S 15:29

S32:9

S38:72

I hope they satisfy you. It is not something that is unique to Jesus (P).








Edited by - Hischam Khan on 03/13/2004 18:46:21

[C-R-O-W-]

Thank you so much

Peace.

"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[xp²]

C-R-O-W,

you got me curios now, what is it thats exciting you so much, care to give us a hint?

[C-R-O-W-]

Well its got to do with the Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Comforter, Sabbath, Rapture, Paul, Tongues, Easter, Christmas, Passover, Fountain of Living Water and more…

Its really exciting me :D :D :D :D

Its just full of information, too much input, need to slow down, but so excited, want to learn all, read all, know all, search all, find all, understand all, but I know, yes, i know there is time for everything, so I know I need to slow… but like I said, WOW.

Peace.

"A truthful witness saves souls, But a false witness is deceitful.(Pr 14:25)" _-_-_ "A false witness will perish, And whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever" (Pr 21:28)

[xp²]

lol ok, sounds like your having fun.


take care.

[Lamp Of Light]

The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ? hmmm.

Let me pnder that. Angels are supposed to be creatures of fire. Although it conflicts directly with lukes account in the gospels, because int hat account, Gabriel was speaking, and referred to the Holy Spirit as somthign other then himself (if I am not mistaken).

As to my methods, I apologize, I was never one to have much tact through my life. Since my leaf tuurned over, at times I am as gentle as a lamb, but there are times I yet wield my staff like a giant billy club. You have to forgive me Hischam, I beg you. Remember, I am newborn spirit. I will make many mistakes yet.

I am certain that the messiah is much more important then muhammed is being told to give him credit for, and that is why I think that muhammed has been deceievd. If I didn't speak my heart and mind in honesty and truth, where would we get ? I am not going to lie to you.




Blessed is the Lord our God!

[wskanaan]

In islam we are told the Devil as created from fire... the angles were crerated from light.... just a correction.

Any way... to us the Messiah (PBUH) is a prophet... just like the other prophets. The miracle of his birth was one of many miracles that God has made during human history... and it was one of four things God showed us he can do... The creation of Man from nothing (Adam)... the creation of a woman from a man (EVE)... the creation of a man from a woman (Jesus)... and the creation of man from two parents... (All other people)...

So ... The way Jesus was created is only one of the miracles God showed us his abilities by.

In addition... no script shows the Messiah saying he was the son of God in the way it was taken... At the time of the Messiah the term "son of God" ar "God's children" was used to describe those who believe in God... so why give him a different status for using such a regular term... I believe prophet David was also described as the son of God... why was he not given the same status.

The jews also claim one of their prophets is the son of God... why not give him too the same status...

Even in islam... some extremist sects have gone to giving devine status to some figures... which is unacceptable to us.

God is one.... that is the message that all the prophets came with... but the problem with people is that they want something they can feel and touch. They need something material to feel comfortable about their beliefs... hence the way people made up Gods to worship throughout history... and they gave them human traits....

interestingly though... most of the time if you ask someone why they worship this or that god they will say to get them closer to the real God that created the universe. They confess their gods did not create anything... yet they still worship them to feel safer by having something they see and touch...

Even christians... they (you) have built statues of Jesus that you go to and worship... but in the end they are inanimate objects...

Islam dictates that all your worship should be directed towards God... the only god that can benefit or harm you.

[Light88]

Light88 here. When Rima said that every "word", "sentence" is "inspired", thats out of context. Put mildly "thats not right" ok. Whats correct I think, (please correct me) is that the writer is inspired to write a message ergo the message IS inspired. The farmer and the fisherman uses words differently from the philosopher and student of Gamaliel.

But thank you everyone. Another comment or observation : There is really no room for "personalizing" or attacking someone in this forum otherwise we defeat the purposes to be here altogether, aren't we

ih882002

[Rima]

Light light ,I started to like you

Edited by - Rima on 03/14/2004 14:15:14

[Rima]

I hate to do this but dear light you gave me no choice let me comment this:

[quote]by light 88
But thank you everyone. Another comment or observation : There is really no room for "personalizing" or attacking someone in this forum otherwise we defeat the purposes to be here altogether, aren't we

you know what I have to agree , but when Apple pie (and his 52 clones) attacked everyone , attacked everything , you probably found it OK and maybe funny, now you concern about the purpose of this so called dialogue, I mean come on light .

some people don`t have sense of humor , ask banana if he comes back (I doubt it)



Genesis 1221:222525

<marquee>“and god make a sweet little yellow thing , and God saw that it was good, he tasted it , it was sweet , he said, let be called <font color="#FF0000">BANANA </font> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>amen<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> amen <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>amen</marquee>





Edited by - Rima on 03/14/2004 14:17:47

[Rima]

hey, what happend to my questions, anyone REFUTE my points , where is banana and his 25 clones ,should I consider this as my points are UNREFUTABLE <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> , and todays verse would be:

Deuto-babanomy 25:11-12

<marquee>“and the HEAVENLY KNOWLADGE has come to me and said: son of man <font color="#FF0000">WHERE IS MY JACKET </font><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>amen <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>amen <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>amen<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> </marquee>


p.s.if we continue like this new verse every day, I would have a new bible in few weeks , I would call it not the old testament , not the new one but the lastest testament

thanks banana



Edited by - Rima on 03/14/2004 14:15:55

[Lamp Of Light]

Peace and love rima,

I will refute them, but not in this thread. I will do it in the other one.

Blessed is the Lord our God!

[Hischam Khan]

Lamp, of Light, you seem to be mixing up Angels with the Jinn. It is the Jinn that are made of fire and the Devil is believed to be one of them. Also, to my understanding the majority of Muslim scholars believe that the devil was a Jinn and not a “fallen Angel”.

Yes, ‘Ruuhil-Qudus’ (Holy Spirit) is referring to the Archangel Gabriel who strengthened Jesus (P). So I don’t know why you are still using this in your argument that according to the Qur’an Jesus (P) is somehow supposed to be a unique and divine “Spirit of God”. Also, you made the accusation that “Spirit” is only used for Jesus (P) so I corrected you and gave you some verses. Would like to comment on whether they satisfied your criticism?

You wrote:

”I am certain that the messiah is much more important then muhammed is being told to give him credit for, and that is why I think that muhammed has been deceievd.”

Well you have been presenting your doubts and I gave my response but you never touched upon many of my replies. So at the moment your view holds next to no value to me. You did say that hopefully we will come to see the total truth so if that is where you want to guide me then you will have to respond to my posts. I don’t really want to post them all again so I hope you will look at them and see for yourself. You will find that I did respond to pretty much everything you asked for but you haven’t been responding to what I’ve been saying.

[Light88]

Rima : You wrote "they said that every word . . . of the Bible . ." who is "they"? they Holy Bible NEVER said that, you know. Go back, read carefully. Also, Paul's writings which are also called "epistles" are actually pastoral letters addressed to churches. Naturally there are greetings and salutations. Nothing wrong with those. They are in no way distort the messages which are inspired. But there are some people who read with the intention of finding faults rather than finding the truth. The manifestation of that are found here in the forum

ih882002

[xp²]

salam all,


Hischam wrote: "<font color="dark blue">Yes, ‘Ruuhil-Qudus’ (Holy Spirit) is referring to the Archangel Gabriel who strengthened Jesus (P). </font>"

it is further explained how it strengthened Jesus in the Quran, as follows:

<font color="green">Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' [5:110]</font>