mohammed was a FALSE prophet

[truechristian]

The Ishmaelite people are a result of the birth of Ishmael son of Abraham through a
handmaiden named Hagar and even though he was a half brother to a legal son of
Abraham and Sarah, Abraham taught both his sons the True Worship of the True God; It
was only your false prophet Mohammed (who saw a demon and thought it an angel) that
the Ishmaelites (Arab peoples) bought into a violent and oppressive religion. Indeed every
country in which you find Islam, you find violence, bloodlust and oppression...without
exception.

Know this: One day all of you will wake up and find out that the prophet you worship and
in whose name you murder innocent peoples, you will worship the True King of Kings, and
Lord of Lords IN JERUSALEM, His Name being Jesus the Christ...and you shall keep all His
Holy Days including His Feasts and His SATURDAY SABBATH!!

Get as angry as you wish, but this will come to pass as sure as the sun rises in the east
and sets in the west because God (the REAL GOD) has spoken it.

One day you will all have to repent of following a false prophet and murdering innocents in
that false prophet's name. It is rank idolatry!

Seek you the LORD while HE may be found!

You are so deceived....

You are so deceived....

[saffiyya]

Peace.
Are you okay? You sound disturbed.
saffiyya

[crimson]

"It
was only your false prophet Mohammed (who saw a demon and thought it an angel)"

Our Prohpet WASN'T God to see the difference between an angel or a demon because he was just beginning to see the signs of God...THAT IS WHY HE COULDNT DIFFERENTIATE



"Know this: One day all of you will wake up and find out that the prophet you worship and
in whose name you murder innocent peoples,"

If you didnt know, we DO NOT worship the Prophet!!! We worship God. Prohpet is human...WE DO NOT WORSHIP HUMANS! And WE DO NOT MURDER IN THE NAME OF GOD OR ANY OF OUR PROPHETS


"you will worship ....Jesus the Christ"...

Now this..is ONE FUNNY JOKE....People make a note of this joke. As said earlier we Muslims DO NOT worship HUMANS! Jesus Christ is a Human being...HE IS OUR PROPHET....Do u even know why u christians MADE him into GOD?????????? U call urself a "TRUE CHRISTIAN"....Forgive me but the name doesn't sound appropriate! You should HAVE UR FACTS STRAIGHT.
I SURE HOPE I MEET U ON JUDGEMENT DAY WHEN U WILL COME FACE TO FACE WITH GOD AND N_O_T JESUS CHRIST. Jesus Christ IS A PROPHET, NOT GOD!

[Atif Rahman]

Salamz,

Dear Crimson,

The manner of the reaction you displayed did not do anything to create a good impression about your powers of persuation or your strength in discerning an argument and replying logically to it.

Remember the voice that is *heard* first may be the loudest, but the one that is remembered is the one actually listened to.

What good can your reply full of capital letters (which represent yelling in computerese) possibily do to benifit anyone reading the discussion. If instead you had replied in a logical, level-headed manner, then perhaps your rebuttal would have had more effect.

While I understand exactly how you feel and why you feel it, you should know that your emotions can be put to better use if they were channelled more creatively.

That being said however, it is evident that the "TrueChristian" is not posting here to initiate an intellectual discussion. Rather he is just spewing forth a bunch of his convictions with no interest in pursueing them or defending them in a logical manner based on evidence.

All such "rantings" are not disallowed by the rules of this forum, but such threads tend to die away quickly with not positive result for anyone concerned. The best thing to do is to invite the individual concerned into a debate "in manners most appropriate." If that person doesn't respond, then just ignore him/her.

Finally, I would like to request you, Crimson, not to take my criticisms in the wrong way. They are not at you personally, but just by your method of responding in debates. You seem like a sincere person and I wish you the best.

wasalam,
Atif

[Porky]

TrueChristian,
Why do you come to this board with an attack? You believe in Jesus, so do lots of others. No one here is interested in a fight about who is right. It is not a winnable argument, and this board is not for that purpose. I suggest you visit whychristianity.com. There you will find 2 things: 1) an ongoing debate (a civilized one) about who is right, but you will be surprised to see that it is between Catholics, protestants, athiests, agnostics, nihilists,pagans and Muslims. It is also a forum in which you can spew most anything about religion, and you will not get kicked out.

You will also find that everybody else at whychristianity.com will tell you you are wrong, if you are not of the same religion as they are. And then, my friend, they will explain to you why you don't know jack about Christianity. I can help you understand that fact, if you like.

Good luck, hope you don't give yourself a hernia. Oh, and by the way, you are wrong about Islam and also about Christianity.

Christianity, since you probably do not know, was based on an earlier religion, founded by Zoraster, who lived around 1700 b.c. (B.C. does not stand for "before Christ.") And he wasn't born in 0. And he was one of several dieties who rose from the grave after 3 days. Apollo, Istar, Mithras all did that before Jesus. Paul, who was probably gay and definitely hated women and who was a businessman/promoter, wrote several of the new testament chapters. He also told the Romans they could keep their celebrations such as Saturnalia and Valentines Day.
That is why you had Christmas, not because of Jesus, who wasn't born on December 25, and it wasn't the year 0 (He was born about 4-7 B.C.)

If you have come here to attack, you will be disappointed to find that the people here, for the most part,are not going to attack you back. You will soon get bored, I think, because there are better posts to read and respond to than yours.

Good luck with your huge problem. And congratulations for showing what the biggest problem with Christians has always been, dating back to Constantine, Emperor of Rome in the 4th century A.D.,was that Christian sects were all fighting with each other. So you continue the tradition.

By the way, is this what your Bible has taught you to do? I mean the New Testament.

[Porky]

Also, I took a look at your member info, you typed the following:

"be slow to speak and quick to listen...."

Am I missing something? Or is this what you want everyone else to do?

By the way, I meant to tell you in my above post that you won't get kicked off of this forum either.

[neena]

Porky, you brought up some very interesting points. Also, I just wanted to add that another misconception many Christian have about Paul is that he knew Jesus. He never met Jesus and as a matter of fact, Paul was on his way to kill Jesus when Jesus was crucified. Then, amazingly, he fell asleep and Jesus appeared to him and asked him to continue his mission. That is when Christianity became Paulianity. I find several things interesting about this whole story. Firstly, that Jesus would ask Paul to carry on his mission instead of James, his own brother as well as good friend. Secondly, that the Bible quotes Jesus stating several time that he is not here to destroy the laws, but when Paul comes onto the scene, he says that we should not follow the old laws. Also, why would Jesus have not asked on of his disciples to carry on the mission instead of Paul or Saul (when he was working for the Roman against Jesus). Anyway, I could go on forever, but I won't. I just find it very interesting when "true Christians" begin shouting that they are right and they a lot of the times have less knowledge than non-Christians. It is actually a shame because I am neither Christian or Muslim or any other religion right now, but I am searching for Truth. It is certainly a difficult thing to find and I am not even sure it is possible and it doesn't make it any easier when people are so quick to spread the lies they have taken as truth. Anyway, I am thankful for this forum.

Neena

[imported_admin]

Crimson please watch your language and behavior.

[truechristian]

Dear Crimson: I cannot understand what it is you are trying to say in the paragraph below. Can you try again, please? (Trying to understand you)



"It
was only your false prophet Mohammed (who saw a demon and thought it an angel)"

Our Prohpet WASN'T God to see the difference between an angel or a demon because he was just beginning to see the signs of God...THAT IS WHY HE COULDNT DIFFERENTIATE



"Know this: One day all of you will wake up and find out that the prophet you worship and
in whose name you murder innocent peoples,"

If you didnt know, we DO NOT worship the Prophet!!! We worship God. Prohpet is human...WE DO NOT WORSHIP HUMANS! And WE DO NOT MURDER IN THE NAME OF GOD OR ANY OF OUR PROPHETS

Indeed? You obviously do not know, or fail to understand that Jesus was the Son of God as well as God! He also came as a witness on behalf of His Father to tell us of the coming Kingdom of God. (There are many Scriptures I can take you to from Genesis to Revelation which prove He was extant from the beginning with His Father and He was God incarnate.)

As for not Killing in the name of ALlah or Mohammed: How about every bombing in every country Islam is in? How about the USS Cole? How about the Destruction of the Two World trade centres? Need I go on? How about the PLO and the terrorism they promote? How about the tacit silence of the worldwide Islamic community condeming these acts of murder instead of condoning? Give me a break.


"you will worship ....Jesus the Christ"...

Now this..is ONE FUNNY JOKE....People make a note of this joke. As said earlier we Muslims DO NOT worship HUMANS! Jesus Christ is a Human being...HE IS OUR PROPHET....Do u even know why u christians MADE him into GOD?????????? U call urself a "TRUE CHRISTIAN"....Forgive me but the name doesn't sound appropriate! You should HAVE UR FACTS STRAIGHT.
I SURE HOPE I MEET U ON JUDGEMENT DAY WHEN U WILL COME FACE TO FACE WITH GOD AND N_O_T JESUS CHRIST. Jesus Christ IS A PROPHET, NOT GOD!

Tell you what? You get your facts straight on what really is in the Bible and then talk to me. You have no idea, but you as others like to do is ASSUME you know what is in there just because you can sort-of quote something in there based on something you may have heard once upon a time. I shall meet you in the Judgement Day when all people, men and women, great and small stand to give an account before God...and I give you my word before God that if I am wrong I will apologise to you. However~ if it comes to pass that you have been proven wrong (not by me but by Jesus and His Father) will you then bow down and worship the True God and renounce Islam and Mohammed?



You are so deceived....

[neena]

"TrueChristian,"

People who shout out ridiculous things such as "I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG," when speaking about religious ideas truly make themselves look silly. I cannot believe God, whether it be Allah or the father of Jesus or Shiva for that matter would condone behavior such as that. No one here (by that I mean in this forum) is trying to do anything wrong or immoral or even insulting to someone else (except for perhaps you). People are simply using this tool as a way to discuss ideas and try to come to a higher understanding. If you really believe what you are writing, than why don't you use your brain and your Bible rather than your temper and insults. State what you specifically disagree with and why then allow for rebuttal. Maybe everyone can learn something then.

Neena

P.S. Do you not finding it a bit disrespectful to refer to God as His Father? God is the highest and placing him 2nd to a human (no matter how great that human is) seems inherently wrong.

[truechristian]

Dear Porky: Might I enquire as to your nym being an unclean name both to Islam adherants and also to Jews?



TrueChristian,
Why do you come to this board with an attack? You believe in Jesus, so do lots of others. No one here is interested in a fight about who is right. It is not a winnable argument, and this board is not for that purpose. I suggest you visit whychristianity.com. There you will find 2 things: 1) an ongoing debate (a civilized one) about who is right, but you will be surprised to see that it is between Catholics, protestants, athiests, agnostics, nihilists,pagans and Muslims. It is also a forum in which you can spew most anything about religion, and you will not get kicked out.

Why should I want to go there when I am learning something here. It sounds as if you go to those boards to argue only and to spew your brand of fertilizer. If you knew anything about what True Christianity is all about, you wouldn't spend your time there either as none of the categories of posters have nothing in common with the pure, true, simple Gospel Message Christ came to teach. And I'll tell you something else too, Porky~ the term 'christian' merely means someone who supposedly follows Christ. It doesn't necessarily mean they really are. Indeed the Scriptures teach us that 'we must be Jews inwardly. Name me *One* so-called mainstream christian religion that is more Jewish in faith, belief, Sabbath and Holy Days? You won't be able to.

You will also find that everybody else at whychristianity.com will tell you you are wrong,

*yawn* So?

if you are not of the same religion as they are. And then, my friend, they will explain to you why you don't know jack about Christianity.

(You mean like the way you are trying to do? (LOL)

I can help you understand that fact, if you like.

Oh that's RICH! You trying to explain what Christian/Christianity when you don't have a clue what you're talking about. It would be like a 2 yr old trying to explain Doppler radar. Go ahead. Make my day, I could use a good laugh now and again.

Good luck, hope you don't give yourself a hernia.

Thank you for your sweet concern. I promise I'll try very hard not to get a hernia. Does it hurt you much?

Oh, and by the way, you are wrong about Islam and also about Christianity.

I admit I don't know much about Islam but from my Middle East studies (which is why I'm here), I know Islam is the bedrock and foundation of a lot of worldwide terrorism. As for Christianity, are you the Pope? God of the Universe? Christian? That'll be the day, Porky. You are the one who doesn't know Jack! (ROTFL)

Christianity, since you probably do not know, was based on an earlier religion, founded by Zoraster, who lived around 1700 b.c.

Goes back long before that. Goes back all the way to *gasp* Persia and Assyria and ancient Babylon.

(B.C. does not stand for "before Christ.")
Oh. Does it stand for "christmas", Coffee, caramel, camel, candle, cookie?

And he wasn't born in 0.

DUH. There was no year zero. Everyone knows that.

And he was one of several dieties who rose from the grave after 3 days. Apollo, Istar, Mithras all did that before Jesus.

Wow. What have you been smoking? If you sell it, you could make some good money. Where did you get your so-called fact? A comic book in a lavatory?

Satan Paul, who was probably gay and definitely hated women and who was a businessman/promoter, wrote several of the new testament chapters. He also told the Romans they could keep their celebrations such as Saturnalia and Valentines Day.

No he didn't. You have no proof because there is no proof.

Tell you what: instead of parsing through the rest of your drivel, I'll tell you to go back to the Bible and read it with an open mind, without preconceived notions you got off a message board in cyberspace. Be careful, I should warn you...you just might learn something and in the process be proven wrong. Are you up for the challenge, Porky? Or are you afraid of the Truth and actually learning something for a change.


That is why you had Christmas, not because of Jesus, who wasn't born on December 25, and it wasn't the year 0 (He was born about 4-7 B.C.)

You should be coming down off that bad acid trip any time now, don't fret...

If you have come here to attack, you will be disappointed to find that the people here, for the most part,are not going to attack you back. You will soon get bored, I think, because there are better posts to read and respond to than yours.

Oh well, can't cast pearls before swine, huh? Porky? (Pardon the pun)

Good luck with your huge problem. And congratulations for showing what the biggest problem with Christians has always been, dating back to Constantine, Emperor of Rome in the 4th century A.D.,was that Christian sects were all fighting with each other. So you continue the tradition.

True religion is not catholic. True religion is not based from that Babylonian mystery religion at Rome. Memorise that, okay? Now go have a darvon and chill out.

By the way, is this what your Bible has taught you to do? I mean the New Testament.

What are you referring to? I follow Christ as the Son of God who is also God, who also created the totality of creation, who is also my Savior, and I worship God the Father (Abba) because my big brother Christ told me to to in The inspired Word of God the Bible.

What's your excuse?




You are so deceived....

[truechristian]

Dear neena:

I think you're refering to is actually called the Paulicians. They were in various times also referred to as the Cathari,Waldensians, Thryratyians and Bogomils.



Porky, you brought up some very interesting points. Also, I just wanted to add that another misconception many Christian have about Paul is that he knew Jesus. He never met Jesus and as a matter of fact, Paul was on his way to kill Jesus when Jesus was crucified.

I would be most interested in your research and your proofs on this one when it was Christ Jesus who sent the Apostles (Including Paul who was formerly named Saul) to spread the Gospel. Interestingly enough He smote saul with Paul on his way to Damascus, Syria.

Then, amazingly, he fell asleep and Jesus appeared to him and asked him to continue his mission. That is when Christianity became Paulianity.

No, no, no..look up the history of Paulicians...

I find several things interesting about this whole story. Firstly, that Jesus would ask Paul to carry on his mission instead of James, his own brother as well as good friend.

That is why nepotism and politics never flew with Jesus...He chose the best person to carry out the job and it wasn't based on fraternity or friendship.

Secondly, that the Bible quotes Jesus stating several time that he is not here to destroy the laws, but when Paul comes onto the scene, he says that we should not follow the old laws.

Huh? Paul (as well as all the Apostles and the early New Testament Church followed Christ's teachings. All of them and changed nothing. It was only after Simon Magus the magician met up with Paul in Rome (read the book of Acts) that Simon magus founded the Roman pagan-based roman church that everyone now calls the Catholic church. That romish church has absolutely nothing in common with Christ's teachings.

Also, why would Jesus have not asked on of his disciples to carry on the mission instead of Paul or Saul (when he was working for the Roman against Jesus).

To this you are correct: as Saul Paul was acting on the behest of the Emporer, but after his conversion as Paul, he works with Christ. He was one of the Apostles at the Passover seder. So how can anyone claim Jesus never knew him when Paul was right there, right on the scene?

Anyway, I could go on forever, but I won't. I just find it very interesting when "true Christians" begin shouting that they are right and they a lot of the times have less knowledge than non-Christians.

That's because contrary to modernistic philospophy, there is only one true Church, one true faith, one true God. I can give you scriptural referents if you wish.

It is actually a shame because I am neither Christian or Muslim or any other religion right now, but I am searching for Truth.

You search for the Truth of the real Church and real faith should begin with your Bible and lots of sincere prayer. Find out what the hallmarks of the True Faith are...

It is certainly a difficult thing to find and I am not even sure it is possible

Yes it is...if you are sincere in looking. Ask God to teach you, to guide you and read the Bible. He says we should worship Him in spirit and in truth and He will guide your path if you are sincere. I hope to God He guides you and I will pray He shows you the Way...and remember Jesus said (quote) I am the Way, the Truth and the life...

and it doesn't make it any easier when people are so quick to spread the lies they have taken as truth.

Very true, Neena. May God open your eyes and see...seek you the Lord while He may be found....and know that the Truth shall set you free.

Anyway, I am thankful for this forum.

Neena




You are so deceived....

[saffiyya]

Asalaam alaikoom,
Anyone here ever read the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls? It might help everyone who is debating the origins of Christianity, the Rising from the Dead, etc.
They are a sort of "key" to the New Testament. Extremely interesting, very controversial, but only the One God (Allah in Arabi) knows best.
Check it out.
fi imanAllah
saffiyya

[Ronnie]

A'salam,

Saffiyya

I have some of the books. I've read some but not fully. You're right they are interesting since things in the Dead Sea Scrolls don't conincide with the oldest version of the Old Testament we have today, by about a thousand years. Looking forward to the dialogue and I hope you join in.

Wassal'lam

[crimson]

"Why do you come to this board with an attack..."
"Good luck, hope you don't give yourself a hernia"

Porky, i wanna applaud to what u said. True Christian still doesnt get it.

HE IS LOSING IT....

By the way Admin, whoever u are there is nothing WRONG in my behaviour or my language....DID I USE THE "F" word?????? No. Did i use the "B" word??? No....what makes u think that i have to watch my language and behaviour?????
If u wanna block me out of this forum, fine do it...but im sure that u will feel the heap of guilt on u once u do that....Blocking me off an islamic board when i learn so many things from others.

And Atif, tsk-tsk. It's a shame that u think people use capitals to scream at others....be advised that capitals are used to EMPHASIZE and NOT scream.....geez...of all the people assume things...Oh is there any rule which says u cant use caps here????
("All such "rantings" are not disallowed by the rules of this forum, but such threads tend to die away quickly with not positive result for anyone concerned. ") Rantings...like LOL!

I'm trying to make my point clear by telling the so called True Christian and by EMPHASIZING my words... Thats the only way people learn and even then True Christian DIDN'T understand what i was trying to say....that just shows we should have the feature of "bold" here...

Porky, once again- that was a great reply.
And Admin, u do whatever u want to.

[crimson]

Oh and true christian...

"will u then renounce islam?"

When there will be ABSOLUTELY no question abt WHO is right...
oh u know what?
IT IS NOT WORTH TALKING TO U......U DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO ARGUE. I suggest u take some Public Speaking classes and LEARN how to argue...ALL UR POINTS SEEM TO HOLD NO AND I MEAN N_O WEIGHTAGE.
TSK-TSK....I pity u.

[Azad]

Assalam

@crimson

It's a shame that u think people use capitals to scream at others....be advised that capitals are used to EMPHASIZE and NOT scream.....geez...of all the people assume things...Oh is there any rule which says u cant use caps here????

There should be no shame or guilt upon him because of interpreting capitals as screaming. As Atif correctly said, in computerese capitals are understood as shouting, and definitely not emphasising.
To my mind you are one of the few people who do not know or accept that capitals in a sentence are used to yell but not really to emphasize. <= Now look at this method to emphasize a sentence or a part of it and look at this one:

To my mind you are one of the few people who do not know or accept that capitals in a sentence are used to yell BUT NOT REALLY TO EMPHASIZE.

There might be examples which could demonstrate much better what I want you to understand, but accept that in very rare cases readers are not forced to understand capitals as yelling.
It's very inappropriate to stress something by using capitals.

If you wonder how I made the bold words:
You are allowed to write HTML-Code in your postings, so if you want to make something bold then put the word(s) between a and , use this "tag" word to format something in Italic.



Edited by - Azad on 01/14/2003 16:02:07

[Porky]

True Christian,

What a great post. You have done a lot of research into Christianity and I always learn something from others' posts. So thanks for that.

You said some things I don't agee with, some I do. But that is okay and I hope you'll forgive me for not going through each point. Takes too long and I only claim to know something, loads of people here know more than me about religions.

But here is one thing you said:

"It is actually a shame because I am neither Christian or Muslim or any other religion right now, but I am searching for Truth."

Well, me too. But for me, it is not "right now." I am not looking to embrace any organised religion, ever. I'm content in believing that we were put here by a Creator. I choose to believe that this Creator is called God by some, Allah by others. And I choose to believe that the Creator is singular. And it seems that something has helped me out in life, especially when I ask for help.

I am searching for the truth as well. And I only believe what makes sense to me. That doesn't make me right, it is just right for me.

I came here for the reason that this world seems to be on the verge of a big problem. At least, as a westerner, I've been lucky enough to have not seen the wars which are always going on somewhere.
I wanted to know if Muslims are all against the west. If they have a real reason to dislike non-Muslims. And why they think the way they do. And as for Islam, I'm satisfying a curiousity about a people I know nothing about. And since all of us are getting closer together, we need to learn to not fear people we don't understand.

Also, having had friends as a child who were Catholic and Jewish, me being a Prebyterian, opened my eyes to an amazing thing: Every religion claims to be the true one and the one which gets to go to heaven. And everyone else gets to burn or similar bad thing after they die. Now I am learning, from this board, what Muslims believe.

I just went back and re-read your post again. Yes, what I smoke is generally good. How about you?

I had one heck of a day yesterday. But when I got home and saw your reply, it made me laugh. Not because I think you are wrong (and you are, if you don't think Jesus was born somewhere between 4-7 b.c., when do you think he was born? And why?). I laughed because your post was both interesting and argumentative. And who doesn't like a lively debate with an intelligent person?

Last quote, with my comment and yours:

"By the way, is this what your Bible has taught you to do? I mean the New Testament.

What are you referring to? I follow Christ as the Son of God who is also God, who also created the totality of creation, who is also my Savior, and I worship God the Father (Abba) because my big brother Christ told me to to in The inspired Word of God the Bible.

What's your excuse?"


What I meant was that I thought Christians tried to have the forgiving and kind temperment that you would expect that Jesus had.
So it is surprising to hear a Christian sounding so agressive. You don't picture Father Flannigan or even the Padre from the old MASH re-runs as being like, well, like you seem to be. No offense, just being objective.

What is my excuse? Don't have one. Don't need one. I'm not trying to act like a Christian or a Muslim.

Okay, really the last quote to comment on:

"Anyway, I am thankful for this forum."

Me too, True Christian.

My best to you.

Porky

[Porky]

Hey, what do you mean my name is unclean? Just because it sounds like pig? Would it make me a better person if I changed my name to something good sounding? Like Angel? Or Jesus?
Would that help me get to heaven?

You said: "As for not Killing in the name of ALlah or Mohammed: How about every bombing in every country Islam is in? How about the USS Cole? How about the Destruction of the Two World trade centres? Need I go on? How about the PLO and the terrorism they promote? How about the tacit silence of the worldwide Islamic community condeming these acts of murder instead of condoning? Give me a break."

I say, how about Reverend Fred Phelps? You remember him, he is the nut who went with his rabid supporters to cheer at the funeral of a gay boy who had been tied to a fence and beat to death. Now, what do you have to say about ol' Fred? He is a christian preacher.

No, Phelps didn't kill anyone. But his hatred is not very Christian, I wouldn't think. But he does his deeds in the name of Jesus. Just like those terrorists do their deeds in the name of their religion. So you can't blame the religion. Because the intent is not there. You have rabid people in every religion. From your posts, I would say that you are leaning toward hatred.

This is not the crusades. People should realise that, basically, humans are good, not bad. But there are the bad in every society.
I'll bet that there are loads of really good humans in the Muslim world. Some of the posters here should be indicative of others with similar nature.

Best regards,

Porky

[neena]

Dear Truechristian,

When I said Paulianity, I was being a bit sarcastic. I know about the sect called the Paulicians and was not referring to them at all but rather the "Christians" who don't follow Jesus at all, but Paul (which are all Christians today because Jesus clearly followed the Mosaic Laws). Also, it is quite a well known fact that Paul never once met Jesus (while he was a live at least). If you would like to argue that, please give me book, chapter, and verse. In addition, I would like to recommend the website www.mostmerciful.com/paul.htm to you. I think you will find it quite interesting. Lastly, I am not sure what your argument was here:

(Neena Said)"Secondly, that the Bible quotes Jesus stating several time that he is not here to destroy the laws, but when Paul comes onto the scene, he says that we should not follow the old laws. "

"TrueChristian Replied) "Huh? Paul (as well as all the Apostles and the early New Testament Church followed Christ's teachings. All of them and changed nothing. It was only after Simon Magus the magician met up with Paul in Rome (read the book of Acts) that Simon magus founded the Roman pagan-based roman church that everyone now calls the Catholic church. That romish church has absolutely nothing in common with Christ's teachings"

I was reffering to:

Jesus sayiny "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17)

As compared to Paul explained plainly that the old testament is done away with, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ...which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ...For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious...And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ"
(2 Cor. 3: 6-14)

Hope this cleared up my arguments with you.

Neena






Dear neena:

I think you're refering to is actually called the Paulicians. They were in various times also referred to as the Cathari,Waldensians, Thryratyians and Bogomils.



Porky, you brought up some very interesting points. Also, I just wanted to add that another misconception many Christian have about Paul is that he knew Jesus. He never met Jesus and as a matter of fact, Paul was on his way to kill Jesus when Jesus was crucified.

I would be most interested in your research and your proofs on this one when it was Christ Jesus who sent the Apostles (Including Paul who was formerly named Saul) to spread the Gospel. Interestingly enough He smote saul with Paul on his way to Damascus, Syria.

Then, amazingly, he fell asleep and Jesus appeared to him and asked him to continue his mission. That is when Christianity became Paulianity.

No, no, no..look up the history of Paulicians...

I find several things interesting about this whole story. Firstly, that Jesus would ask Paul to carry on his mission instead of James, his own brother as well as good friend.

That is why nepotism and politics never flew with Jesus...He chose the best person to carry out the job and it wasn't based on fraternity or friendship.

Secondly, that the Bible quotes Jesus stating several time that he is not here to destroy the laws, but when Paul comes onto the scene, he says that we should not follow the old laws.

Huh? Paul (as well as all the Apostles and the early New Testament Church followed Christ's teachings. All of them and changed nothing. It was only after Simon Magus the magician met up with Paul in Rome (read the book of Acts) that Simon magus founded the Roman pagan-based roman church that everyone now calls the Catholic church. That romish church has absolutely nothing in common with Christ's teachings.

Also, why would Jesus have not asked on of his disciples to carry on the mission instead of Paul or Saul (when he was working for the Roman against Jesus).

To this you are correct: as Saul Paul was acting on the behest of the Emporer, but after his conversion as Paul, he works with Christ. He was one of the Apostles at the Passover seder. So how can anyone claim Jesus never knew him when Paul was right there, right on the scene?

Anyway, I could go on forever, but I won't. I just find it very interesting when "true Christians" begin shouting that they are right and they a lot of the times have less knowledge than non-Christians.

That's because contrary to modernistic philospophy, there is only one true Church, one true faith, one true God. I can give you scriptural referents if you wish.

It is actually a shame because I am neither Christian or Muslim or any other religion right now, but I am searching for Truth.

You search for the Truth of the real Church and real faith should begin with your Bible and lots of sincere prayer. Find out what the hallmarks of the True Faith are...

It is certainly a difficult thing to find and I am not even sure it is possible

Yes it is...if you are sincere in looking. Ask God to teach you, to guide you and read the Bible. He says we should worship Him in spirit and in truth and He will guide your path if you are sincere. I hope to God He guides you and I will pray He shows you the Way...and remember Jesus said (quote) I am the Way, the Truth and the life...

and it doesn't make it any easier when people are so quick to spread the lies they have taken as truth.

Very true, Neena. May God open your eyes and see...seek you the Lord while He may be found....and know that the Truth shall set you free.

Anyway, I am thankful for this forum.

Neena




You are so deceived....

[Porky]

Crimson,

Thanks. Nice to talk to you again.

Porky

[meier2206]

peace be to you true christian :) and assalamuallaikum to my muslim friends :)
it's morning here in malaysia.
quite an interesting topic u guys are talking about.
there's one thing i would like to share with my brothers and sisters here, i just read a book by dr. zakir naik, he was mentioning about Al-Quran verse , i don't remember the exact sentence but i remember one thing, " to argue with best and gracious" i'll check which verse is it:)
Patience ok guys...
wassalam.
take care truechristian.

[Magdi]

Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and sincere exhortations and debate with them in manners that are most appropriate
(Al-Nah'l 16:125)

[meier2206]

yeah that's the one magdi.
... i would add up that 'appropriate' as 'best and the most gracious' :)
ok guys, u all have done a great ibadah .
may Allah be with you all.

[Saudi Girl]

"true christian" I have a question for you....if Jesus was indeed the Lord (if thats what you believe ) then who did Jesus pray to? Himself? its ridiculus if u really think about it.

Jesus never told his people to worship him he told them to worship Allah the one TRUE God. And Mohammed is his last Messenger...May the Peace and Blessings of Allah be Upon Him.

You are the confused person not us muslims.

May Mohammed

[Someone]

why do topics with headings such as this even allowed in this forum. ok fine they want to ask questions but there should be some level of respect. we shouldnt allow just about anything for the sake of understanding islam.

[nr]

Looks like TrueChristian is a 7 day adventist?

We can be certain that Paul was aligned with the 12 apostles because Peter met him and approved of his writings with the reservation that they were a little bit hard to understand.


Paul, who was probably gay and definitely hated women and who was a businessman/promoter, wrote several of the new testament chapters. He also told the Romans they could keep their celebrations such as Saturnalia and Valentines Day.
You shouldn't say such things. Paul was beheaded by the roman goverment for his beliefs. What we do no is that Paul was genuinely confused or correct. Paul also did not hate woman. He reconized that woman's role was different than a mans. But he said in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." So his view on (man|woman)kind is well ahead of the prevalent opinion.


Christianity, since you probably do not know, was based on an earlier religion, founded by Zoraster, who lived around 1700 b.c. (B.C. does not stand for "before Christ.") And he wasn't born in 0. And he was one of several dieties who rose from the grave after 3 days.

The resemblance to Zorastrian religion is also in the later prophets of the old testament. Isaiah 44 and 45 mention Cyrus who was a Persian king, which legend states that the hebrew God came to him to let the Israelites worship in the temple.

Justin defends againsts Mithras. He goes with the demon explanation (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html). I'm not sure how many are going to believe that though.