Breif History, Yazid Bin Muawiayah's nomination

[Fatah-Momin]

" Th first amongst my followers who will invade Ceaser's city will be forgiven their sins."
[Sahi Al; Bukhari, Vol. I P. 109, Translation by Mohd. muhsin Khan]

It is an irony that one for whome the prophet[saw] had given good tiding of Paradise and who was recognized and accepted as khalifah by not less then 1000 companions[ra] of the prophet[saw] during his life time was later maligned and against whome unfortunatly a triade of most malicious propoganda was made.

http://www.shani.offlife-hosting.com/board/index.php?showtopic=409

[It is a long article so I have posted the link.]

[newsX]

" Th first amongst my followers who will invade Ceaser's city will be forgiven their sins."
[Sahi Al; Bukhari, Vol. I P. 109, Translation by Mohd. muhsin Khan]

It is an irony that one for whome the prophet[saw] had given good tiding of Paradise and who was recognized and accepted as khalifah by not less then 1000 companions[ra] of the prophet[saw] during his life time was later maligned and against whome unfortunatly a triade of most malicious propoganda was made.

http://www.shani.offlife-hosting.com/board/index.php?showtopic=409

[It is a lonf article so I have posted the link.]

here we go again...

[BOY-NICE]

" Th first amongst my followers who will invade Ceaser's city will be forgiven their sins."
[Sahi Al; Bukhari, Vol. I P. 109, Translation by Mohd. muhsin Khan]

It is an irony that one for whome the prophet[saw] had given good tiding of Paradise and who was recognized and accepted as khalifah by not less then 1000 companions[ra] of the prophet[saw] during his life time was later maligned and against whome unfortunatly a triade of most malicious propoganda was made.

http://www.shani.offlife-hosting.com/board/index.php?showtopic=409

[It is a lonf article so I have posted the link.]

to Fatah-Momin , the hardcore lover of Yazeed ,

it is just in the another thread where were requested not to raise issues which spread hatred and you said :


Asalaam Alikum

My mistake and I apologize

now you have come to open a thread which have a link to your article in a section "Muslims Vs Shia". I dont know what to say on the following attitude of yours.

[Fatah-Momin]

Where in this, is hatered? these are historical facts, if you have objection to this version of history please present your argument, running behind the cover of hatered is not going to solve any thing, a healthy debate will.
Each forums has their own boards, if you have any objection please raise it with the admin of that board, I am just a member there as I am here.
Any way it is nice to see[chat] you again.

[BOY-NICE]

Where in this, is hatered? these are historical facts, if you have objection to this version of history please present your argument, running behind the cover of hatered is not going to solve any thing, a healthy debate will.
Each forums has their own boards, if you have any objection please raise it with the admin of that board, I am just a member there as I am here.
Any way it is nice to see[chat] you again.

u havent read my post carefully. The thing which is provoking hatred is the phrase/name of the forum i quoted above from the external link you mentioned.

[Ron]

Where in this, is hatered? these are historical facts, if you have objection to this version of history please present your argument, running behind the cover of hatered is not going to solve any thing, a healthy debate will.
You've got to be kidding. All you ever do is promote your hate by linking and posting things related to division. Your mission is obvious. You've not taught anything; your on a blind mission to further schisms instead of closing the gaps. You talk about "solving" but your solving would probably mean death to all Shia or anyone that disagrees with your ideologies. The one that is hiding is you. I guess to validate yourself and your beliefs you have to show how wrong others are.

This forum has had enough of such divisive posts. Either you get into conversations or your posts will be globally ignored. Posting a few paragraphs and leaving is not valid, you must be involved in a discussion with your own posts not cut and paste material.

[Fatah-Momin]

This time I am not leaving the forum, last time I had a debate going on a different forum, which took most of my time, Inshallah this time I will spend time on the baord.

[Hannahh]

Well Fatih, my knowledge of this rift is relatively new and to be honest, reading about it strengthened my faith in ways I cannot divulge here because certain things are only between a person and Allah. I always knew there was a kind of hatred between the parties but didn't really know what it was about.
I thought it would be nice to share my information with others in order to help people come together and had no idea you were not a regular poster to this board. Now that I'm comfortable with what I've learned about it...there is no reason to share the information with anyone and this will be the last time I respond to your posts regarding Shia. To understand that aspect of 'our side of it' you'd have to be a Shia and as far as I can see...you've absolutely no chance of ever making it to that level of this religion.

Restraint Fatih. Restraint. Kill anger when you see it. Otherwise, it will end up killing you.

All my best and peace on those that deserve it.

[Fatah-Momin]

Well Fatih, my knowledge of this rift is relatively new and to be honest,
If your knoweldge is new then how you know what the rift is about?


reading about it strengthened my faith in ways I cannot divulge
Which faith are you talking about?


certain things are only between a person and Allah
Nothing new, and then are things that between humans too, these are known as Haqooq ul Ibad.


I always knew there was a kind of hatred between the parties but didn't really know what it was about.
Exposing the beliefs of faith is not hatered, if member on this board have hidden agenda other then uinderstanding Islam, then yes you can say it is hatered. If you have issues that yopu want to expose about Islam go ahead, why would I label it as hatered? ignorance yes, hatered no.


I thought it would be nice to share my information with others
Nice thought always count.


To understand that aspect of 'our side of it' you'd have to be a Shia and as far as I can see.
So now the truth come's out, as to why you label my post as hatered.


as far as I can see...you've absolutely no chance of ever making it to that level of this religion.
after admitting that you are a shia, you could not restrain yor self and had to declare your faith is better than others.
If you want a candid debate on the issue I will welcome you on any site where you can guarantee me equal chance or I will welcome you to a site where I will give you guarantee of full and equal access. Not only you but any shia with any level of knowledge, may it be a regular follower of the shia faith to a ayatullah. Just let me know.

[Fatah-Momin]

Yes one thing more please do show me even one word in my first post where I have used words of hatered against any one. I hope you guys wont back off. I am looking forward to it

[Hannahh]

Well if you insist but if you want to practice it you better learn how to spell it first Fatah:

It's HATRED. Not Hatered. Looks ugly either way but at least you won't look like a fool when you misspell your brand of gospel.

Edit: My advice for you is to learn to laugh a bit. Don't take things so seriously. When a person dies it is always better to die with a smile on and it is relatively unlikely for a person like you (after the anger has killed you) to be attired correctly. Clothe yourself appropriately for your final day Fatah. Learn how to be nice to anyone who comes your way. You never know to whom you might be speaking. It might be death's angel you know.

[Hannahh]

Odgen Does a Turkey
(As Seen On TV)

Death is a fantastic classic
I feel a bit Jurassic
and want to offer some advice
for a very low low price.
The best thing you can buy
if you really want to try
might be the Nifty Lifter
even better than a flour sifter,
to pick up a greasy turkey
so it doesn't go all jerky.
A slippery dumb bird
looks awfully damn absurd
because of all the work
and the poltergeist's that lurk
to make your dinner fly
right on past the pie.
So buy a Nifty Lifter
and keep it by your sifter.


I also advice a serious dose of some Ogden Nash poetry. He is essential for feeling good will towards the absurd.

[Hannahh]

I've often found that one way of getting attention is to preach hatred. It always works. Generally speaking, the gospel of hatred is a lonely one. There are many who ascribe to this particular religion. It knows no boundaries and observes all religious laws...the practiced imitator has a history almost as long as God. We often wonder where this religion came from...we look in our old caves and we see the human and animal sacrifices...we look to our wars and see our dead. We live lonely in our graves before our grave is even a remote possibility because the religion of hatred is one that imitates life but in reality it is the death of all systems.

If you see the Buddha coming down the road in your direction Fatah, kill him.
Kill him. He's outside of you. This is Joseph Campbell the master of all mythologies, the comparative analyser of what makes systems what they are and how they influence people in general. The Hero faces a test.

If you faced a test today Fatah...would you pass it? Would you really be able to kill the invisible Buddha whose origin is unknown to you and whose essence is as clear to some as Allah is to our religion? Which means it isn't always very clear. How many people have paid to make their religion the world wide religion of hope? Apparently, their side (hatred) is winning and the waters in China are mostly poisoned and the birds are going down with disease. Who me worry? How could I possibly change it?

For one, I could avoid joining them. I'd never try to beat them at their game...but I'd definitely not join them in their violent end game.

No. My smile is already on. I hope you kill Buddha and get your smile back...because when the "essence" of your belief is outside of you and alive...it is quantified. When it is inside it is infinite. Your parable will live on to the Judgement Day and you'll receive your two histories. Which one do you really want to weigh more?

[Fatah-Momin]

Instead of pointing out my spelling mistakes, try pointing out hatred in my first post under this thread. Otherwise stop posting useless responses.



Don't take things so seriously. When a person dies it is always better to die with a smile on

I would rather die recieting a Kalima.


PS: English is not my first language, how many westerner can speak pushto, baluchi, seraiki or Urdu.

[Hannahh]

And I'll answer one final question after having advised you thusly:

I only read the Nahjul during Ramadan of this year. I was actually rereading the Koran again but noticed the Nahjul up on the shelf where it has been for over two years (unread by anyone in my household including my dreadful Shia husband who for twenty four years felt it more important for me to remain neutral and his only response was, "Oh, it's political. Don't bother about it.").

So no Fatah. My knowledge is very new and very beautiful and some things in the Koran actually make a heck of alot more sense to me now. When you relegate Sunnis or Shias to these narrow frameworks that are obviously responses to political upheavals, colonialisms, human nature, etc. and deny them access to their RIGHT to know the whole story you are failing to kill what it is that ails you. Knowing things never hurt anyone unless their faith was weak or nonexistent. Any good muslim knows that and all sects have reasons for being the way they are and I personally am in no hurry to cast judgement on any of them (except for my own as is my duty as a muslim in order to protect my integrity and the integrity of my faith) because I'm not God Fatah. Neither are you and neither is Osama Elvis. He's the worst thing that has ever happened to this religion and you can count me in the group that calls him a dajjal. He wants to own Saudi Arabia lock stock and barrel.

Who could blame him? But sending people to their deaths, poor and ignorant young men from impoverished countries like Pakistan and the Phillipines while he hides away in a cave somewhere and keeps his bank accounts ready (oh yeah...for Jihad which means ousting the so far peaceful Saud family)....is what I call a Major Sin. He has no right to spread Islam as if he invented it and no doubt you call him your helper. If he had one ounce of integrity he'd go to the front lines himself (in Palestine) and throw himself on an IDF convoy (since that is his trump card..like it always is with certain Jihadists in the world). Just like he tells his supporters to do or better yet...he'd head on into one of the five star hotels he used to stay in before he and his Taleban made it their business to massacre innocent and impoverished Afghanis who had no idea there was a problem in the world other than they didn't have enought to eat and resorted to boiling grass and rocks.

And as far as I'm concerned...you could do the same thing. Afterall, it IS what you believe in. What's a few more innocent deaths when you are mostly concerned with Fatah's eternal salvation. I'd say you've got a good bet on with that one. Each one of these people who carry out their brand of religion WILL end up where they belong. As will you and I hope you learn to live a little better before you die. Live as a sunni...what does it matter if you are a Sunni who knows the difference between hypocrisy and non hypocrisy?
I personally could care less which team has more...Sunni or Shia. Like you all I care about is to be on the team that declares hypocrisy a Major Sin.

And no...I don't need to go off this site to meet you. I'm fine right here. People understand me...correct me when I'm wrong and tolerate me when I'm arrogant. I can't think of a better place to air my views.

Good luck with it my friend.

[Fatah-Momin]

Very nicely put, I wish it was true, this is not the case espacialy from a practising shia, if you speak truth you will 90% out of your faith, it is not I who is saying this it is one of the infalible imams:

Al-Shafi/Al-Kafi

Page#140 Book of Imaan and Kufar Vol:IV
Imam Abu Abdullah[AS] said: "Taqeeyah [to lie] is 90% of the deen[religion] and one who does not use Taqeeyah has no deen[religion], lie is in every thing other than Nabeez [wine of barley] and Masah over leather socks"

[Ron]

...

[Fatah-Momin]

In post #16 I have quoted an hadith of the Imam, please do not accuse me of hatred now. The Bool Kafi is the most authentic and blessed book of shia faith. I can put forth the documented proof from shia source to this claim of mine.

[hlatif]

Brother Fatah,

Why do you defend Someone that has been dead for a while. GOD knows his business, and it is really up to GOD whether Yazid will go to heaven or to hell. It is true that there is debate on whether Yazid wanted to kill Hussein (R) or not. However, the killing of Hussein was not the only bad thing that happened under the rule of Yazid. He attacked Mecca and Medina and killed many other people.

When Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal was asked whether he loved Yazid, he answered:
How can one love Yazid?

Take care and have a great day

Hussein

[khalid zaheer]

assalaam o alaikum Fatah

Sorry for intereption brother Fatah, I have read many posts in threads recently started by you, but sorry to say I could not understand what you want to say in real. The posts of other members also astonishing me espacially the behavior of brother Ron. He is very cool person and its the first time I am looking him in such a way.

If you dont mind could you plz explain what is the matter. Your number of posts are saying you recently join the board then why most of the members using hard sentences for you.

Allah hafiz

[Umar]

uggghhh man this sunni vs shia dilemma is still going on.

Fatah, give up already. It's not gona work here.

--------------------------

Salam Khalid,

yes there is frustration and for good reasons...when one asks rhetorical (sorry Hannahh, stealing your word :) ) questions and especially if the questions are related to shia or sunni bashing a few things happen

(a) Most of us are plain sick and tired of it. We aren't stupid enough to let continue...

(b) Such questions aren't exactly questions as the questioner's mind is already made up. This in effect means that the people answering have wasted their time. That is not cool. This same time could have been spent on someone or something more productive.

(c) This game of labelling others kaafir is sickening. It's hard to remain calm in such debates.

[Hannahh]

Well this isn't the first time I've heard that people are just plain "sick" of it.

Unfortunately Umar...it is the central concern in Islam right now whether you want to look at it or not. I think it is up to ordinary guys like you and me and whoever else to stop allowing things to go on by...like Osama, like Saddam...because in reality...most muslims failed to stand up and be counted when it was important to do so because they had underlying biases against certain sects (mostly Shia). It isn't going to remain that way Umar. I think the time has come for the ethnic cleansing of Shia to stop. It is entirely hypocritical of muslims to decry what is occurring in Palestine and then turn around and ignore what has been going on in Islam for centuries using apologism and revisionism.

Now though, Islam has no choice. A third party of Christians is moving in for the real kill and muslims have sold their options to their so-called helpers. Why do you think the Koran is so full of mentions of "helpers"? In other words...allies.

In my estimation...the Shia if allowed to take the majority lead in Iraq it would result in far less bloodshed. And truly...it is only a handful of Sunni there that are desperately trying to hold on to their former power that they enjoyed while Saddam was busy draining the swamps of Basra and setting oil rigs on fire. Even if the US gave him the green light..even if.

If someone tells you to go jump off a cliff would you do so? Not only that he turned around when he knew he had no escape and became a Koran thumping activist. Shame and where have we seen that story before? No offense and really...I don't blame Sunnis for history. I do hold them responsible though now for what is occurring when they fail to cry Foul.

But now...there is no choice. America isn't going to turn back and they ought not to. They need to stay and monitor the Shia as well as the Sunni...teach them what the REAL world looks and acts like. And honestly...no country really suffers that badly from US colonization. Usually colonization brings great productivity in terms of rebuilding. Germany, Japan, the Phillipines. Certainly it is not a cause to go to war but I never believed that the US went to war only for profit. They had no choice and the excesses of Kofi Annan (and his neglect of the Rwandan issue), his nepotism towards his son in Africa...left them no recourse.

Kofi Annan should have stepped down after Rwanda. I mean....how can a decent person keep standing there after having such a catastrophic bloodbath ON HIS HANDS and keep a straight face? How? But he did and he fostered an atmosphere of greed and corruption in the UN which was far more interested in keeping people poor so they could exploit them as opposed to making them independent (both ideas would benefit the helper but one is simply more profitable because it involves little to no investment i.e. rice supplying versus a country who will be willing to help with infrastructure, industry and education).

But no....the Shia/Sunni issue is core. Most people who were converted outside of the Middle East were converted by groups sponsored by fundamentalist Sunni Sects...that is absolutely clear to me. The few Shia converts in the world are usually married to a Shia (like me) because the Shia do not believe in prosletyzing and for the most part Shia governments only fund awareness causes. Sure there are individuals who have web sites and such...but nothing like WAMY and the MSA in the West. As a matter of fact...me even openly discussing the fracture is a cause for great concern to my own soul. Shia are expected to keep quiet about it. And move on. Usually they do. Usually they do. But some important victories have encouraged people to stand up and resist and I'm one of them.

I would never mean it to discourage a Sunni from being a Sunni to the best of their ability. We don't entertain this idea of Sunni, Are they Kafir...we just don't believe that. Sunni to us are our muslim brothers and sisters. We say the same Salaams and the same prayers, fast the same month and believe in the same Illah. To say otherwise is simply the worst thing anyone of us can do and we will in the end have that accusation placed at our own two feet on Judgement Day.

[khalid zaheer]

assalaam o alaikum

Thanks for reply brother Umer, now I think I could grasp the matter. Alongwith your post read the emotional wordings of Hannahh. So the matter is Sunni & Shia.......the old debate.

To say someone kaafir is not the right way because only Almighty knows who is kaafir & who is not. I think the way, choosen by Fatah, to present his views is not right. Every matter could be discussed in better way. Certainly there are many things in Shia sect which are against Islam but Sunni has also many things that have not any touch with Islam. And if I say there is not a far distance between Shia & Sunni would not be wrong. As the matter of quarreling, reason is the "Ullama" of both the sects. any way

Allah Hafiz

[Fatah-Momin]

assalaam o alaikum Fatah

Sorry for intereption brother Fatah, I have read many posts in threads recently started by you, but sorry to say I could not understand what you want to say in real. The posts of other members also astonishing me espacially the behavior of brother Ron. He is very cool person and its the first time I am looking him in such a way.

If you dont mind could you plz explain what is the matter. Your number of posts are saying you recently join the board then why most of the members using hard sentences for you.

Allah hafiz

khalid zaheer

My only intention to right what has been wronged, this misrepresentation of history by Shia has created a huge rift in Ummah, most of my life I believed what shia said, but there was always a question that would troubled me, why did other memebers of the Ahle baite not participate in this mission of Hz. Hussain[ra] remember Hz. Ibn Abbas[ra] was also alive at the time we do not hear anything from him against Yazid, why? Hz. Muhammad bin Hanifiah[rta] was alive why do we not have any documentation from him against Yazid, instead we have him praising Yazid, there are other questions too.
Now why has Ron lost his cool, this question is best answered by him, I can only assume I have touched upon his sensitive nerve.

[Ratatosk]

Salam Fatah-Momin,

Now why has Ron lost his cool, this question is best answered by him, I can only assume I have touched upon his sensitive nerve.Nah, I can assure you; brother Ron hasn't lost his cool. Venerable Admin Ron has the forum's best interest in mind.

Regards,

[hlatif]

Salaam all,

I ran into some excerpts from Ibn Taimiyyah realted to Yazid and I felt the need to share them. Ibn Taimiyyha mentioned three groups related to Yazid:

1- hates him

2- Thinks that he is a saint

3-( والقول الثالث : أنه كان ملكا من ملوك المسلمين له حسنات وسيئات ولم يولد إلا في خلافة عثمان ولم يكن كافرا ؛ ولكن جرى بسببه ما جرى من مصرع " الحسين " وفعل ما فعل بأهل الحرة ولم يكن صاحبا ولا من أولياء الله الصالحين وهذا قول عامة أهل العقل والعلم والسنة والجماعة
Translation:
And third saying: that he was a king of the kings of the Muslims with good deeds and bad deeds. He was not born untill the time of Uthman (R) and he was not a Kafir. However, happened because of him what happened as the killing of Hussein (R) and he did what he did to the people of Harra and he was not a friend of the prophet nor was he a great friend of GOD. And this is the saying of the majority of the people of brain and knowledge and Sunna and Jamaa.

As to the Hadith that mentions that the person that attacks Constantinople will be forgiven. Ibn Taimiyyah says the following:
فإن اللعنة لمن يعمل المعاصي مما يسوغ فيها الاجتهاد وكذلك محبة من يعمل حسنات وسيئات بل لا يتنافى عندنا أن يجتمع في الرجل الحمد والذم والثواب والعقاب ؛ كذلك لا يتنافى أن يصلى عليه ويدعى له وأن يلعن ويشتم أيضا باعتبار وجهين . فإن أهل السنة : متفقون على أن فساق أهل الملة - وإن دخلوا النار أو استحقوا دخولها فإنهم - لا بد أن يدخلوا الجنة فيجتمع فيهم الثواب والعقاب
Translation:
Therefore the curse for the one that does bad deeds is something that is subject to Ijtihad, and so is the love of the ones that do good and bad deeds. Amongst us, there is no contradiction that a person deserves thanks and blame, and punishment and reward at the same time. There is no contradticiton that we pray on him and for him and that we curse him in two ways. Because the people of Sunna agree that the wrong doers of the umma, even if they enter hell or deserved to enter it, will eventually enter paradise, therefore receiving the punishement and reward.

So, the promise that he is forgiven does not make Yazid a good person and does not necessarily mean that he will go to Heaven without passing through hell. In any case, that is the business of GOD.

The point is that there is no point in trying to make a saint of a person who was not. Let us leave the one that have been long dead in peace. May GOD forgive us all

hussein

[khalid zaheer]

but there was always a question that would troubled me, why did other memebers of the Ahle baite not participate in this mission of Hz. Hussain[ra]
Assalaam o alaikum Fatah

First make correction, the family of Hussain (may Allah bless him) is not Ahle Bait-a-Rasool but Ahle bait-a-Ali (ra), the traditional philosophy of Ahle bait is a wrong concept. Ahle bait-a-Rasool are the wives of Muhammad (saw), no one else.

Yes you are right a number of Suhaaba ikraam + relative of Muhammad (saw) were alive at that time but they did not participate in this battle but most of them were with Yazeed. If we see the matter simple as historical event then you are certainly right. Your point of view is correct and I think, indeed, it is an historical matter instead of a part of Islam or “Aqaa’aid”. Historical matters could be discussed in any way with proves, so if we discuss about this matter nothing is wrong, but I think the way should be polite and constructive.

An interesting thing is there was a book written by Mirza Hairat Dahlvi sb named “Kitaab ush Shaadat”, it consist of the details about persons martyred for Almighty. Mirza sb said (in book 6) Hussain (may Allah bless him) has martyred in the bettle of “Qustun’tunnia” (Ceaser’s city) leading by Yazeed and the place where He (may Allah bless him) was martyred is still alive by the name of “Muqaam-a-shaadat”, a number of persons go to visit that place every year. Any way

Allah hafiz

[Hannahh]

Well Fatah...you know...you have a point and I've seen this now at ShiaChat.

The first Imams...were guided by Ali (pbuh) to "keep to themselves" and not make a stink. And they didn't really until invited to Kerbala. We all know that disaster and the survivors carried their tale with them when they were taken captive by Muwaiya's forces. It was Zainab primarily (Hassan and Hussein, (pbut) sister) who recounted the story as they travelled to ?Syria I believe. The story took on a life of its own and this is what I call the response that was to become modern Shi'ism.

I don't particulary agree with the idea of promoting it as a cause particularly when it hurts Sunnis so much and causes a necessary backlash (like yours).

Actually...in the Nahjul the advice is given to not disclose anything at all. To moan and complain about the old grief isn't helpful and in fact is strictly a cause for serious repurcussions in the afterlife. Part of the Shia doctrine that is being neglected now (I think because some Shia possess a sense of revenge) is to suffer misfortune such as this quietly and with faith. I guess though, it gets hard particularly nowdays when we have CNN to broadcast something like the Saddam Hussein hearings. What Shia might be missing is that Saddam was a secularist who only used his religion at the end point of his dictatorship. In that, Shia see Muwaiya instead of Saddam. Muwaiya used the Koran to divide loyalty and weaken the caliph (Ali Mominin, pbuh).

[nabpeace]

Peace brother fateh,

You wrote:

" Th first amongst my followers who will invade Ceaser's city will be forgiven their sins."
[Sahi Al; Bukhari, Vol. I P. 109, Translation by Mohd. muhsin Khan]
why do you think invading ceaser`s city was this important? What about invading/conquering other territories? Islam is not about conquering territories its about conquering hearts and minds with deeds of righteousness.
I think its a fabricated hadith [history is always written by the winners] and because it contradicts quran.

29:7-Those who believe and WORK RIGHTEOUS DEEDS from them shall We blot out all evil (that may be) in them and We shall reward them according to the best of their deeds.

You can clearly see from the above verse that it’s the righteous deeds and not any invasion that can nullify your past sins.

9:80-Whether thou [O Muhammad] ASK FOR THEIR FORGIVENESS OR NOT (THEIR SIN IS UNFORGIVABLE): IF THOU ASK SEVENTY TIMES FOR THEIR FORGIVENESS ALLAH WILL NOT FORGIVE THEM: because they have rejected Allah and His apostle; and Allah guides not those who are perversely disobedient

63:6-It is equal to them whether thou pray for their forgiveness or not. ALLAH WILL NOT FORGIVE THEM. Truly Allah guides not rebellious transgressors.

Peace.

[ehliinsan]

First of all salam sister, ive been going through ur posts before i have registered here. what ever u say is full of well knowledge.
Mashallah for ur knowledges and senses. because if i aint wrong ive read a part which u have comfronted that u was catholic and then converted to muslim, and thats the point i wana say mashallah to u because most of the threads uve come up with is more sense then most of the muslim borns.
i mean everyone dont get this the wrong way round, i am just saying what an effort she has shown to gather lot of truefull informations.
which most of us born muslims hasnt even comeup with,

mashallah, and then i will be writing my comments regarding on muawiya and yazeed.
dont worry i wouldnt copy n paste from any sources or links, i will spit out all from my own personal knowledge

[ehliinsan]

WELL now it has come to a point where we ask and answer things about muawiya and his son yazeed. no body is saying they are this or they are that, what we r saying is only to do with the mistakes they have done towards the Ahlulbayt (Prothet family)
Now every one knows very well for the words Mohammed (S.A.W) said towards and about his family. and as some brothers/sisters which has allready gaven us some examples of them.
I am sure every one is also aware of the Gadir Khaum (Gaumm) incidents.
well as the subjects muawiya and yazeed some one just show or explaine to me what have muawiya or yazeed given to the islam other than giving pain to the ahlulbayt. what muawiya has done was swipe off Hz Ali (R.A) then his son Hz Hasan (A.s) and finnaly commanded his son to finnish his mission by killing Hz Hussein (A.s). The karbala tradegy has never forgotten and has allways been a pain in us (Shias) hearts and minds. There for we have allways gone on the road which the Ahlulbayt has built, As Mohammed (S.A.W) has prayed oh allah, ey who believes and respects my ahlulbayt, i pray for you to respect and grant them too. ey who do not respect or like my ahlulbayt may allah hate them too.
now these truefull facts proove what muawiya and yazeed disorve. so now brothers and sisters u tell me, do we like these mans who has been evil towards our prothets family. or do we respect and like them.....
answers are urs.
oviously most of u are gona say every one has done mistakes through there live times but there are different types of mistakes and different types of forgivingness. what they have done is never forgiven.
i am sorry to say this but these are my thoughts.
to be a good muslim doesnt have to be shia or sunni. a good muslim is a good muslim, and he will allways spit the truths and accept the truths.
just like the imams who stand in the mimbars and spit the truths is what they have to do, never 2 give untrue waaz to the ahli cemaat.

ma salam

[SunYatSen]

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