Illusion or Maya

[WhoAmI]

A Master is talking to a Professor

Master:
What do you usually tell? What you have seen or what you think you have seen?

Professor:
Master! I am not a person who says whatever comes to the mind. I always tell what I have seen.

Master:
Seen where? In the books or in the real life?

Professor:
I read in books; and experience in real life.
The Master took some water from a pot and with his wet fingers, drew a zero on the ground.

Master:
Are you seeing this or experiencing this?

Professor:
This is a zero. There is nothing to experience here. I am simply seeing it.


The Master took a piece of chalk and drew another zero on the ground.
Master: What are you seeing here?

Professor:
This is also zero.

Master:
This is also zero! That is also zero!! Is there no difference between them?

Professor:
This is water, this is chalk.

Master:
Where then is the zero?

Professor:
Zero is a symbol. Because I am an educated person, that symbol is there in my mind. With its help, I am able to know that this is zero.

Master:
Zero is in your brain. What I am asking is, ‘what are you seeing here?’

The professor lowered his eyes and thought for a long time. Finally, he said slowly –

"Master! I am not seeing what is here. What is here, is reminding me of something. I am forgetting what is in front of me because I am drowned in its thought. Because I am forgetting, I falsely assumed that I saw outside what I had inside my mind. Based on what I have heard, I am narrating about the inside thing. From now onwards, I will learn to see "inside the mind OR behind the mind" to get out from the ILLUSION."From that day onwards, the Professor became silent.
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"I (You)" means not his body.
The "Real I" is totally different from the "I" attached to the body.
"I (You)" means Atma (or) Chaitanya (or) Electro magnetic power"


The following statement is true when the body realizes/experiences the “Real I”

“The outer world having objects and scenes, which is seen by the eyes is NOT TRUE;
it is the mirror image of what is having inside you.”
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This Ilusion is called as MAYA by Hindus

[WhoAmI]

Dear Friends

Kindly let me know if there is any referecne to this Maya or Illusionary
world in the holy khuran

Thanks,
-

[vinod]

WhoAmI

A question for ya - how do the abstract thoughts that you post here help the average man on the Street? If you could connect the learnings from your post to what matters everyday to an average man - like you and me, perhaps that would add to the benefit of your post.

You may want to share how such conversations as depicted in your post have changed the way you see the world

Regards
Vinod

[WhoAmI]

what matters everyday to an average man
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Dear Vinod,

Kindly elobarate what do you mean "what matters everyday to an average man"

For me, this is a NOT a simple question to answer.
It depends on EACH individual.

Depending on your answer, I will try to elobarate...

Thanks,
-

[vinod]

WhoAmi
I owe you an answer for what matters to an average man? I'll need some tiem for that. How about trying my other question in the post though -

share how such conversations as depicted in your post have changed the way you see the world

Regards
Vinod

[WhoAmI]

Share how such conversations as depicted in your post have changed the way you see the world
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Suppose I (you) did something.

What is behind that made you to do something?
It is some thought.

What is behind generation of this thought?
It is Mind.

What is behind that makes it happen (generating thought)?
So called science says lakhs (crores) of Neurons ?

What is behind that makes the Neurons to do so?
If there is an answer exists here, again I will ask “what is behind that makes it happen?”
Suppose, right now, there is no answer. “Simply it is Nature”

Suppose after some time, Science finds an answer here.
Again I will ask “what is behind that makes it happen?”

This process goes on…
When so called science ends, at last, the answer is “it is NATURE”
(Let us call this Nature as some X)

Now, can it be concluded that “this X is responsible for all actions performed by living beings”

When that X is responsible for the actions performed using the living body,
Then I (you) MUST NOT BE THE LIVING BODY
In one way, Then I (you) must be that X

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When this is understood clearly, definitely the way “the person (or mind) looks into the outer world “would change"

When I (you) falsely assume “I am the body, I did this” instead of “ I am that x”,It is because of Ego or Illusion or Maya

Those conversations between Master and Disciple are trying to say “you are not the body; you are that X or Atma or Chaitanya”

[hasan]

hmmm..my interest is inspiration, maybe you may understand if I explain it like us (being intellect) in dodgem cars (being the body) activated by a suspension rod to a net of electricity (being the coundiut for inspiration) have I sparked anything?

[vinod]

Dear WhoAmI

I'm a bit dull at intellect when it comes to abstract thoughts. Would I be right in saying that the point you're making is we are different from our body.

Awaiting your answer :)

Regards
Vinod

[WhoAmI]

Would I be right in saying that the point you're making is we are different from our body.
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Yes my dear
A slight modification.....
You are inside the body as well as outside the body...simply you exist everywhere...
But you are not the body......

When you are telling "My body, My hand, My leg", there itself you are spelling out that you are different and the body is different :)

[WhoAmI]

Bulla Ki Jaana Main Kaun (Translation)
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Salutation to the sufi saint Bulle Shah who sang it first
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Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I!
I am not in the mosque of the believer,
Nor in false rites.
I am not in the pure or the impure.
I am neither Moses nor pharaoh.
Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I!

I am not in the vedas or holy books,
Not in drug or wine.
Not in the drunkards wasted intoxication,
Not in wakefulness or sleep.
Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I!

I am not in sorrow nor in joy,
Neither in clean nor unclean.
I am not water, I am not earth,
I am not fire, I am not air.
Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I!

I am not an Arab or a resident of Lahore,
Nor from Nagour of India.
Neither a hindu or Peshawar turk,
Nor do I live in Nadaun.
Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I!

I cannot be unearthed in the mysteries of religion.
I was not born of Adam and Eve.
I did not name myself.
I am not in stillness, not in movement.
Finally, I only know myself.

I cannot know any other.
Who could be wiser than I?

Bulla asks, who then stands here?
Says Bulla, What do I know about who am I

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because of the above song written and sung by by sufi saint Bulle Shah ,I believe there must be some refrence in Qu'ran to this 'Understanding of reality"

[vinod]

Salam WhoAmi

You are inside the body as well as outside the body...simply you exist everywhere...
But you are not the body......

I'm sorry how does one read this from what you've posted. I get the different from body bit, but taking it to what you've written - that my mind cannot wrap around

Regards
Vinod

[xp²]

because of the above song written and sung by by sufi saint Bulle Shah ,I believe there must be some refrence in Qu'ran to this 'Understanding of reality"

Maybe. However, I don't think it will be easy to find, because the Quran can be very implicit about these things. There is a basic meaning, of every verse of the Quran, which can be understood by most people... but seeking it's inner meanings or realities requires sincere study and contemplation.

If you look among the Sufi's, I think you will find some apparent familiarity... but I believe they have a significantly different view to what you have in mind. Anyway. If you are interested in muslims who view the world as an illusion, you could check out the Secret Beyond Matter (http://www.secretbeyondmatter.com) website.

[Guest]

Hey Xp, sometimes ive thought of this world as nothing but illusion to u know. I do believe that Allah's plane is kind of the only "real" plane. You probably know better than i do, what is that going through my head? Good or bad?

[xp²]

Hey Xp, sometimes ive thought of this world as nothing but illusion to u know. I do believe that Allah's plane is kind of the only "real" plane. You probably know better than i do, what is that going through my head? Good or bad?
Your view is not necessarily bad. Allah being the only Reality is supported by the Quran, I believe. Even through His attributes one can arrive at that conclusion.

To the mortal human self, the ego.. this world is real. However, in an ultimate sense, this world is not real. I think Prophet said that this world is the sleepers dream.

Anyway, we will talk about it more sometime, in the future, insha'Allah. Take care.

[muhtadiyah]

Salaam,

Here's a link to an interview with Rupert Sheldrake. He's a biologist who's done some interesting research on the mind/body connection (more about Sheldrake (www.sheldrake.org)). I'm not sure if this is totally suitable to the topic, but the subtitle "The Soul is not in the Body but the Body is in the Soul" made me think of this thread.

Interview with Rupert Sheldrake (http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/articles/fox.htm)

peace,
muhtadiyah